Decent Boxers Who Learned Boxing Themselves?

[eternaldarkness]

Max Baer could tighten things up when he wanted to. He was sloppy in the same vein young Foreman was. Both hit hard enough that throwing hard was a defense in of itself. Max knocked out the guy after Braddock with a tight hook and he was capable of pumping a jab with his 81 inch reach. I think some of it is that Max never was very serious about boxing. He wanted to have fun and after he killed Campbell, he had even less killer instinct, which is kind of ironic for someone who could hit so hard. I would put Max in the same boxing class as Marciano because he could remember to boxing when needed. Marciano used a few tricks and methods but in my opinion has more one dimension than Baer. In my opinion, Max Baer would clean out the heavyweight division as is with how hard he could hit, having a hell of a chin, and enough endurance to go heavy pressure for 20 rounds.

baer was definitely a scary puncher. but you would have to agree boxing certainly evolved a lot in that era.

 

[mozfonky]

people used to say baer was one of the great natural talents in the division, that's pretty much forgotten about now. I never watched much, they said he had one of the all time great right hands and all kinds of talent but that he couldn't stop clowning around enough to take the sport seriously. they also say he had one of the great heavyweight physiques, but looking at it today, he doesn't look especially muscular, but that's because were used to seeing these roid monsters.

 

[Prefect]

baer was definitely a scary puncher. but you would have to agree boxing certainly evolved a lot in that era.

I don't think so. Boxing "wild" isn't a terrible thing if you can keep your footwork sound and don't get hit with a tight counter. Foreman clubbed away and it worked very well for him with few exceptions. Christ, Cory Sanders came pretty close to starching both Klitschko brothers. Had he been more in shape for the second fight he would have not had to gamble so much. But Max Baer was infinitely better than Cory Sanders.



Baer would be a handful for most champions. Could be crafty, was durable, and hit with power in both hands. To top it off, he had the same reach as the Klitschkos.

Most crap about things being better now stem from how people look aesthetically. Boxers now are leaner and show more muscle. They don't hit any harder and have better endurance. They aren't coached by trainers who learned during the golden era of boxing. How many trainers are considered exceptional? Not many. Freddie Roach wouldn't be an A level trainer during the 40s. The quality of the coaching as well as the depth of talent now isn't what it was when the sport was more popular.

 

[JayE]

Ali definitely counts and is probably the most successful example.

Ali never listened to his trainers. Started off training with Archie Moore and left because the Mongoose was actually telling him to do stuff. Angelo Dundee wasn't really a trainer, just a motivator.

It has been said in the past that he had a lot of respect for Luis Sarria, who was always only called his masseuse, and learned a lot from him (as can be seen in his emulation of one of Sarria's star pupils, Luis Manuel Rodriguez).

 

[JayE]

people used to say baer was one of the great natural talents in the division, that's pretty much forgotten about now. I never watched much, they said he had one of the all time great right hands and all kinds of talent but that he couldn't stop clowning around enough to take the sport seriously. they also say he had one of the great heavyweight physiques, but looking at it today, he doesn't look especially muscular, but that's because were used to seeing these roid monsters.

The talk about his phsique mostly stemmed from his reach, I believe.

 

[mozfonky]

He's also the only heavyweight who could compete with Ali for the funniest of heavyweight champs.

 

[mozfonky]

It has been said in the past that he had a lot of respect for Luis Sarria, who was always only called his masseuse, and learned a lot from him (as can be seen in his emulation of one of Sarria's star pupils, Luis Manuel Rodriguez).i

.

I don't know if sarria taught technique at all. I do know he was a great calisthenics man.

 

[JayE]

.

I don't know if sarria taught technique at all. I do know he was a great calisthenics man.

Sarria was the head coach of the Cuban national team in the 40s and was the head trainer for several successful Cuban pros, most notably Luis Manuel Rodriguez, before he even met up with Ali or established a direct partnership with Dundee. I'm not sure if I've ever read that he had the greatest technical influence on Ali, but he had a very key role within Ali's camp (much more than just a masseuse), and Ali himself attested to the fact that he actively emulated likely the best fighter who Sarria built.

 

[D 1 Wrestler]

Sugar Ray's dad didn't want him to box and made a deal to let him box if he could beat him. Ray's dad , a former navy boxer confident of his abilities, ended up getting thrashed by his pre teen son.

Erik Morales's dad too didn't want his son to box despite owning a gym. So, he kept pairing him up with the best fighters he could find hoping he could find one who could beat his son's enthusasim for boxing out of him. Erik beat the shit out of all of them.

Some guys just have it from the start.

Got sources on that ? Don't doubt it just want to read more

 

[eternaldarkness]

I don't think so. Boxing "wild" isn't a terrible thing if you can keep your footwork sound and don't get hit with a tight counter. Foreman clubbed away and it worked very well for him with few exceptions. Christ, Cory Sanders came pretty close to starching both Klitschko brothers. Had he been more in shape for the second fight he would have not had to gamble so much. But Max Baer was infinitely better than Cory Sanders.



Baer would be a handful for most champions. Could be crafty, was durable, and hit with power in both hands. To top it off, he had the same reach as the Klitschkos.

Most crap about things being better now stem from how people look aesthetically. Boxers now are leaner and show more muscle. They don't hit any harder and have better endurance. They aren't coached by trainers who learned during the golden era of boxing. How many trainers are considered exceptional? Not many. Freddie Roach wouldn't be an A level trainer during the 40s. The quality of the coaching as well as the depth of talent now isn't what it was when the sport was more popular.

i'm not saying modern boxers are better know, and i get what your saying about the appearance thing, but i definitely believe that boxing really evolved from the 1920's to about the 1940's or 1950's. bobo olsen was the first fighter i can think of that used the modern high guard. not that he was the best boxer of his era, just the most modern looking style i can think of. dave sands vs olsen is a classic fight between the old school lower guard punch and move style and a more modern high guard approach.

 

[Prefect]

Got sources on that ? Don't doubt it just want to read more

Ask Seano.

 

[eternaldarkness]

The talk about his phsique mostly stemmed from his reach, I believe.

and the ridiculous width and size of his shoulders and chest.

 

[Woldog]

Gabe Rosado

 

[mozfonky]

Sarria was the head coach of the Cuban national team in the 40s and was the head trainer for several successful Cuban pros, most notably Luis Manuel Rodriguez, before he even met up with Ali or established a direct partnership with Dundee. I'm not sure if I've ever read that he had the greatest technical influence on Ali, but he had a very key role within Ali's camp (much more than just a masseuse), and Ali himself attested to the fact that he actively emulated likely the best fighter who Sarria built.

sure, i don't doubt all of that, but i've never heard of sarria doing anything technical with ali, he had him do calisthenics and he massaged him. I'm not saying he didn't i just never heard that, Ali didn't even listen to dundee so i doubt if he'd listen to a guy who didn't even speak english. They had a strange bond, a close bond from what I've read, Sarria was really one of the most important guys in the ali story, i know that much.

 

[mozfonky]

Got sources on that ? Don't doubt it just want to read more

i'd been reading about ray for over 30 years and i've never heard that, ray's dad wasn't around when he was growing up. In fact, that was a point of contention between ray and his mom when ray grew up and pall'ed it up with his dad, his ma was pissed about that, ray, being the misogynist he was, told his mom that what happened between them was their business.

 

[dembones22]

Any examples of guys who learned boxing themselves growing up before they turned pro but then joined a trainer for the pros or those who trained themselves as a pro?

Julio Cesar Chavez learned boxing himself and then got himself a trainer in Cristobal Rosas when he was becoming well established as a pro.

I think Lineal LWW champ Koichi Wajima, with his famous Frog Punch, is the only one I know who didn't box until he was 25 years old, and he taught himself to box. Is there anyone who fits into this category?



Dmitry Pirog counts to an extent. He went through the Russian amateur system and had amateur trainers, he then had a trainer in the pros...but Pirog did create his own style by watching youtube videos.

That was an exellent piece of flim.


Thanks for the find. Allot of the storied history of boxing is lost in the minds of today's fight fans, because it's been around so long.

Koichi Wajima is another great forgotten warrior of this circumstance.


I don't think he was self taught, but let me add Yoko Gushiken's name into the fray just for underappreciated characters of boxing . I mean he is well known in Japan but do people in the states no about him ??

 

[Noctilux]

I know a man who went 10 rounds with an undefeated self proclaimed TBE........

He was completely self taught

His name you ask?

CONOR ANTHONY MCGREGOR

I believe he got most of his boxing training from Rhonda Rousy.

 

[Dr. Will]

That was an exellent piece of flim.


Thanks for the find. Allot of the storied history of boxing is lost in the minds of today's fight fans, because it's been around so long.

Koichi Wajima is another great forgotten warrior of this circumstance.


I don't think he was self taught, but let me add Yoko Gushiken's name into the fray just for underappreciated characters of boxing . I mean he is well known in Japan but do people in the states no about him ??

It is unfortunate people don't know enough about many of the top Japanese fighters in history. Yoko was a very accurate puncher, a brilliant fighter in his prime. One of my favorite fighters ever is Fighting Harada from the golden age of Bantamweights. When he trained and was ready for a fight, his abilities were sky high. His wins over Eder Jofre are one of the GOAT wins ever.

 

[BarkTheSilentBrawler]

John L. Sullivan

His first boxing match occurred at age 18 when a traveling boxer offered to fight anyone in town for a cash prize. Sullivan went in their with nothing and beat him. The man told him he might have a future in boxing and Sullivan did. He went undefeated against supposedly 300+ people (yes most of them were just random people and traveling boxers, but all of the big fighters from each part of the U.S. got beaten down and you couldn't find anyone from the 1880's that could've beat him. "Uhh duhh duhh Peter Jackson duhh duhh could've beat him" Oh you mean the one who got beat by a 1-2-4 guy, in 1888, when Sullivan was the champion? Yeah. It was wrong of Sullivan to dodge the few African american boxers of his time, but he bulldozed everyone and the only one anyone can name (peter jackson) only really peaked when Sullivan had already entered his 4 year hibernation. It would've made no difference. Sullivan was probably the best natural fighter of all time. He fought back when boxing was bareknuckle, to the finish, and involved some grappling (you could still hold and hit, clinch and lean on your opponent, and hip toss your opponent to the ground). I think if you gave Sullivan a basic understanding of his opponents martial arts he could beat any man in a vale tudo rules fight.

 

[listrahtes]

Ali definitely counts and is probably the most successful example.

Ali never listened to his trainers. Started off training with Archie Moore and left because the Mongoose was actually telling him to do stuff. Angelo Dundee wasn't really a trainer, just a motivator.

But later in his career he relied heavily on what Moore trained him.