Decent Boxers Who Learned Boxing Themselves?

Discussion in 'Boxing Discussion' started by Dr. Will, Feb 8, 2018.

  1. Dr. Will

    Dr. Will Yellow Belt

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    Any examples of guys who learned boxing themselves growing up before they turned pro but then joined a trainer for the pros or those who trained themselves as a pro?

    Julio Cesar Chavez learned boxing himself and then got himself a trainer in Cristobal Rosas when he was becoming well established as a pro.

    I think Lineal LWW champ Koichi Wajima, with his famous Frog Punch, is the only one I know who didn't box until he was 25 years old, and he taught himself to box. Is there anyone who fits into this category?



    Dmitry Pirog counts to an extent. He went through the Russian amateur system and had amateur trainers, he then had a trainer in the pros...but Pirog did create his own style by watching youtube videos.
     
  2. mozfonky

    mozfonky We oughta be fightin' a bottle of Geritol.

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    my opinion and the opinion of a lot of great fighters is that great fighters are their own best teachers. It's probably true that there needs to be a certain amount of latent talent to do this and the rest is work but I think trainers are generally overrated. Ali once said how he came up with his style; watched the guys on tv, saw the good, kept it, saw the bad (in his eyes) left it out. to him, that meant no infighting, using distance for defense instead of just technique.
     
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  3. Prefect

    Prefect Brown Belt

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    Wilfred Benitez is about as a natural you get. He had coaching but you don't out point a lineal champ at 17 without just knowing how to box. Whatever he knew, it was probably far more than his trainers understanding. Ali's trainer had said that his job was just to get Ali in shape and in the right frame mentally. For Benitez it was probably the same but Benitez understood the naunces of boxing. Ali never understood how to box fully.
     
  4. moosaev

    moosaev Green Belt

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    Ali definitely counts and is probably the most successful example.

    Ali never listened to his trainers. Started off training with Archie Moore and left because the Mongoose was actually telling him to do stuff. Angelo Dundee wasn't really a trainer, just a motivator.
     
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  5. HardasNAILZ

    HardasNAILZ Hard, always HARD.

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    I know a man who went 10 rounds with an undefeated self proclaimed TBE........

    He was completely self taught

    His name you ask?

    CONOR ANTHONY MCGREGOR
     
  6. mozfonky

    mozfonky We oughta be fightin' a bottle of Geritol.

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    well, i guess you can say no man is an island, even ali had a lot of subtleties that angie would "suggest" to him rather than "tell" him like moving away once he felt a rope on his calf or what haveyou. and, even if they are self taught, like ali, they are still beneffiting from the expertise of people who came before them, ali learned from watching tv but he also learned from fighting and then later, being around great pros at the fifth street gym and to be honest, there is a such thing as talent where there really is no learning that could substitute.
     
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  7. mozfonky

    mozfonky We oughta be fightin' a bottle of Geritol.

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    also, systems aren't really designed for the freakishly gifted, they are designed for the average and most people would need to be shown how to throw a jab, how to slide their foot into it, how to sychronize it all because it isn't natural. when I watch sugar ray robinson, it's obvious that someone most likely taught and schooled him because so many skills are just anti-intuitive and unnatural.
     
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  8. Prefect

    Prefect Brown Belt

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    Sugar Ray's dad didn't want him to box and made a deal to let him box if he could beat him. Ray's dad , a former navy boxer confident of his abilities, ended up getting thrashed by his pre teen son.

    Erik Morales's dad too didn't want his son to box despite owning a gym. So, he kept pairing him up with the best fighters he could find hoping he could find one who could beat his son's enthusasim for boxing out of him. Erik beat the shit out of all of them.

    Some guys just have it from the start.
     
  9. mozfonky

    mozfonky We oughta be fightin' a bottle of Geritol.

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    never heard that, sugar ray wasn't a good boxer by his own account right from the start, in fact he was so bad he wasn't allowed to fight. Only after hanging around the gym and waiting for his oppurtunity he got to fight. Never heard about his father even being around him as a child.
    you're story of overmatching has happened to people trying to discourage others, Ali used to beat his brother in sparring to discourage him he didn't have it.
     
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  10. ironfist05

    ironfist05 Silver Belt

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    wasnt hopkins largely self taught?
     
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  11. treelo

    treelo Black Belt

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    Chris Eubank was self taught, good solid fighter who was amazing at basics and would have done well as an old school boxer
     
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  12. eternaldarkness

    eternaldarkness Brown Belt

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    a lot of old school boxers 1920-1950 seemed to fight pretty intuitively, and seemed to be half self taught. watch rocky on the heavy bag, most modern trainers would have fits.
     
  13. Dr. Shoemaker

    Dr. Shoemaker ****BOILERPLATE**** Platinum Member

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    I'm not sure I'd call any guy at a high level "self taught". Anyone at a high level had someone who helped get them there.

    But you have guys like Hopkins, Duran, and Pacquiao who learned a lot of the abstract things by fighting out of necessity.
     
  14. JayE

    JayE Black Belt

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    Like @Shoemaker said, he obviously had a lot of other very relevant experience before he started training seriously as a professional, but Bouie Fisher deserves a ton of credit for refining Hopkins' natural fighting ability and making him as fundamentally sound a fighter as you're likely to find in the sport.
     
  15. Prefect

    Prefect Brown Belt

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    Marciano is an odd exception to almost everything. I wouldn't use him as an example of anything more than if you are tough as nails and in incredible shape, you will have a chance.

    Some of the most sound boxers come from the era you mention. I think you are overstating present training at the expense of past training.
     
  16. Playswellwithlawndarts

    Playswellwithlawndarts Jack of all trades Master of some

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    So you admit he’s a boxer now.:D
     
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  17. eternaldarkness

    eternaldarkness Brown Belt

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    you can certainly see a lot of evolution in fighters during that era. i could think of a number of fighters that make marciano look textbook, luis firpo comes to mind as does max baer.
     
  18. mozfonky

    mozfonky We oughta be fightin' a bottle of Geritol.

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    by the time marciano was champ he wasn't just a brawler, he could throw straight punches and i was always surprised by the double left hook he knocked out harry kid matthews with, (i think it was Kid Matthews) it takes a lot of skill to throw double left hooks which is why you don't see too many people doing it.
     
  19. listrahtes

    listrahtes Brown Belt

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    But later in his boxing career he relied heavily on what he learned from Moore.
    That saved him
     
  20. Prefect

    Prefect Brown Belt

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    Max Baer could tighten things up when he wanted to. He was sloppy in the same vein young Foreman was. Both hit hard enough that throwing hard was a defense in of itself. Max knocked out the guy after Braddock with a tight hook and he was capable of pumping a jab with his 81 inch reach. I think some of it is that Max never was very serious about boxing. He wanted to have fun and after he killed Campbell, he had even less killer instinct, which is kind of ironic for someone who could hit so hard. I would put Max in the same boxing class as Marciano because he could remember to boxing when needed. Marciano used a few tricks and methods but in my opinion has more one dimension than Baer. In my opinion, Max Baer would clean out the heavyweight division as is with how hard he could hit, having a hell of a chin, and enough endurance to go heavy pressure for 20 rounds.
     
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