Clearing myths: Usman isn’t an elite win

[MileHigher]

Isn’t he? I don’t know, but IMO he looked better against Khamzat than he did against Masvidal in their first fight. And Khamzat is a way better fighter than Masvidal

Apples to oranges. Also irrelevant…

 

[GOATtalks]

Yeah, that's what I'm getting at. People are taking the best attributes of the past Usman and pretending he had all this against Khamzat, along with a full camp

• The guy you outwrestled Woodley
• The guy who beat Colby in 5-round wars where both were throwing very high volumes of strikes
• The guy who briefly went into KO fighter mode against Masvidal and Burns (this is probably around the time his knee problems started to he stopped wrestling as much)

The Usman who accomplished all those things in the past doesn't exists now. He's still a very good fighter, but not what he once was, especially with 10 days notice at 185. Remember, his size was a big factor for his success at WW. I think he would've lost at least one fight with Colby without the size advantage.

Ok:

• Woodley also got outwrestled by Colby and Burns. The fact that Usman outwrestled Woodley doesn’t mean he could do the same to Khamzat
• Usman had better cardio than Khamzat and they wrestled a lot in the first, so probably it drained his cardio more then striking would’ve. He still landed 22 strikes in the 3rd round. He landed 23 strikes in his 2nd fight with Colby and 29 in their first fight. And he was controlled for 2 minutes by Khamzat in the 3rd round. So yeah, his pretty much the same, if not more active in terms of output and cardio.
• Usman wall’n’stalled against Masvidal 1 and couldn’t finish Colby in their rematch. Usman has 5 KO/TKO wins in 18 UFC fights. He never has and never will be a KO artist

 

[GOATtalks]

Apples to oranges. Also irrelevant…

Based on what then you think that he’s declined?

 

[GOATtalks]

He’s a better grappler. I don’t know about fighter. Maybe he’s a better grappler than masvidal is a striker. I guess that’s possible. Then again, masvidal definitely has had the tougher competition.

Khamzat is definitely a better fighter overall at 185 than Masvidal. It shouldn’t even be debatable

 

[Yep]

Khamzat is definitely a better fighter overall at 185 than Masvidal. It shouldn’t even be debatable

Um, of course it’s debatable. Your judging a guy that has been tested by the top of a division over and over vs a guy who hasn’t. He may be a better fighter. He sure as hell ain’t a better striker than Mas. And Mas sure as hell ain’t a better grappler than Khamzat. Those two things aren’t debatable. However, until Khamzat racks up some wins against top of the division there’s gonna be a debate. At least there should be.

 

[GOATtalks]

You aren’t so good at making points either…

To act like age isn’t a significant factor when a 36 year old fights fights a guy in his twenties is ludicrous. Especially when the older fighter has had way more fights and taken way more damage.

And you are actually trying to use Darren Till and Bisping as examples to support your argument? That’s hilarious. These are literal exceptions that prove the rule. Do better, seriously…

34yo old Volk beat 30yo Yair.

38yo Blachowicz beat 31yo Izzy.

34yo Gaethje beat 30yo Fiziev.

39yo Wonderboy beat 30yo Holland.

And these are just a few of latest examples, where the old dog beats the new. It’s not rare TBH

 

[GOATtalks]

Um, of course it’s debatable. Your judging a guy that has been tested by the top of a division over and over vs a guy who hasn’t. He may be a better fighter. He sure as hell ain’t a better striker than Mas. And Mas sure as hell ain’t a better grappler than Khamzat. Those two things aren’t debatable. However, until Khamzat racks up some wins against top of the division there’s gonna be a debate. At least there should be.

Lol, you’re a retard. Khamzat already beat 2 guys who beat Masvidal. He’s also a legit 185er, while Masvidal fought at 155. At 185 Khamzat would simply murder Masvidal, it wouldn’t even be close

 

[StonedLemur]

I wish people would just pick a hand instead of flip flopping.

Before the fight Usman was an old, shot, no knees sacrificial lamb who Khamzat was going to murk in mere seconds.

Now Sherdog's golden boy struggled against him, when he took the fight on short notice with no camp no less, Usman is once again the elite of the elite, his 4 rounds to 1 loss to Edwards was "razor thin and could have gone either way"

We saw the same thing with Burns. Before fighting Khamzat he was an undersized, not very durable, finished by Usman's jab, murder victim in waiting.

After he beat the shit out of Khamzat and gave as good as he got, Sherdog did a 180 and started the narrative that Burns is a mythical fighter that would cook the rest of the division with ease. Since then he beat Neil Magny like every ranked fighter does, decisoned the ghost of Masvidal and lost comprehensively to Belal who had none of the issues Khamzat did.

Why are Khamzat opponents lambs for the slaughter before the fight and unbeatable monsters after the fight when Chimaev doesn't have his way with them?

Because people can't admit where they're wrong sir.
Then it becomes a story that closer resembles the one they want to tell.

I knew he'd have his issues with Usman despite the short notice.
Usman has been on top for a long time and he doesn't quit.

Seeing the adversity is what I wanted, and every hole that we can see in a guy the better understanding we have of his ceiling...just my opinion of course.

 

[mkt]

Ok:

• A 37yo Bisping beat a 31yo Rockhold for the belt. And the fact that he defended it against 46yo Henderson, proves that the MW division isn’t run by guy’s in their 20’s
• GSP was long retired before fighting Bisping. The reason he retired is because he probably he wasn’t good enough to beat guys like Whittaker and Yoel. By the way Jacare was 36 and Yoel was 39 back then.
• Lol. Do you actually believe that someone would hold the belt 7 years after their peak?
• Izzy’s story isn’t over yet. There’s a good chance that he’ll be a champion again later in his career.
• Weidman and Rockhold are the 2 most overrated MW’s of all time. Their loses weren’t caused by old age or crazy mileage. Better guys came along. USADA might’ve played a part in their demise too. Fuck that, Gegard is the most overrated MW of all time.
• Rich Franklin didn’t lose his belt because he got old. He lost his belt because he’s an inferior fighter compared to Anderson. Their both the same age actually.

Wow, that a ton of copium for the fact that if you do some basic math, the average age of a MW champ is nowhere near 36. Just do a snapshot on Jan 1. annually unless the title changes hands that year. In that case, include the new champ's age at the time of the fight. You can start in 2001 with David Menne at age 27.
UFC Middleweight Title Lineage | UFC

I know it's easier to double down than to swallow your pride and admit you're wrong, but math doesn't lie.

 

[GOATtalks]

Wow, that a ton of copium for the fact that if you do some basic math, the average age of a MW champ is nowhere near 36. Just do a snapshot on Jan 1. annually unless the title changes hands that year. In that case, include the new champ's age at the time of the fight. You can start in 2001 with David Menne at age 27.
UFC Middleweight Title Lineage | UFC

I know it's easier to double down than to swallow your pride and admit you're wrong, but math doesn't lie.

Lol.

You just proved my point that champions got older over time. And I never said that 36 is the average age of MW champions, I just pointed out that there have been many champions around that age.

Look at the data:

Menne: 27yo
Bustamante: 35yo
Tanner: 33yo
Franklin: 30-32yo
Anderson: 31-38yo
Weidman: 29-31yo
Rockhold: 31yo
Bisping: 37-38yo
Whittaker: 27-28yo
Izzy: 30-34yo
Pereira: 35yo
Strickland: 32yo

 

[Yep]

Lol, you’re a retard. Khamzat already beat 2 guys who beat Masvidal. He’s also a legit 185er, while Masvidal fought at 185z Khamzat would simply murder Masvidal, it wouldn’t even be close

You’re a blessing to this community and again , no.

And you said better fighter. The better fighter doesn’t always win. You know that but clearly your ego doesn’t let you admit it. Your counting to fights where he was the bigger fighter against WW. A joke. Do I think he beats Masvidal? Yes. Do I think he has a long career with fighting guys his actual size at the top of that division. Don’t think so. But we shall see. I will gladly admit I’m wrong if he does.

 

[GOATtalks]

You’re a blessing to this community and again , no.

And you said better fighter. The better fighter doesn’t always win. You know that but clearly your ego doesn’t let you admit it. Your counting to fights where he was the bigger fighter against WW. A joke. Do I think he beats Masvidal? Yes. Do I think he has a long career with fighting guys his actual size at the top of that division. Don’t think so. But we shall see. I will gladly admit I’m wrong if he does.

The better fighter is the one who wins. It’s the goal of the fight. It doesn’t matter how good or technical DJ or Volkanovski is, because Ngannou would simply murder them within few minutes. Size does matter. Khamzat is a way harder to beat opponent than Masvidal , especially at 185. In conclusion, Khamzat > Masvidal

 

[mkt]

So 36yo is right about the average age for a MW champ. Point dismissed

You just proved my point that champions got older over time. And I never said that 36 is the average age of MW champions, I just pointed out that there have been many champions around that age.

No, you proved my point. You literally said 36 is about the average in your first post. I quoted it above. Then you listed the ages of champs (without doing the complete year by year that I said was necessary). If I had to guess, the average age is 32 in a given year, which is skewed a bit by all the years Anderson was champ. Still, it's nowhere near 36.

You can finally admit you're wrong, or continue to project, lie and double down. Either way, your reasoning and conclusions are way off. I've proven that and am done here. Bye.

 

[Yep]

The better fighter is the one who wins. It’s the goal of the fight. It doesn’t matter how good or technical DJ or Volkanovski is, because Ngannou would simply murder them within few minutes. Size does matter. Khamzat is a way harder to beat opponent than Masvidal , especially at 185. In conclusion, Khamzat > Masvidal

So Ngannou a better fighter than MM.

 

[ChimRichalds]

Kamaru Usman is absolutely an elite win. Dudes a couple fights removed from a dominant championship reign.

 

[teamfox223]

Usman still a great win, Usman never a easy win for anyone he still have a win over the current champ. I knew Khamzat would have issues taking Usman down but I was surprised Khamzat was able to take Usman down and control him the way he did in the first round. They both came up for WW they weigh in the same only thing is Usman taking this fight on short notice but that was his choice.

 

[MileHigher]

Lol.

You just proved my point that champions got older over time. And I never said that 36 is the average age of MW champions, I just pointed out that there have been many champions around that age.

Look at the data:

Menne: 27yo
Bustamante: 35yo
Tanner: 33yo
Franklin: 30-32yo
Anderson: 31-38yo
Weidman: 29-31yo
Rockhold: 31yo
Bisping: 37-38yo
Whittaker: 27-28yo
Izzy: 30-34yo
Pereira: 35yo
Strickland: 32yo

Lmfao that is not “the data”…

You are cherry picking and bringing up outliers that actually undermine your argument and support the one your are against. Again the exception proves the rule.

 

[GOATtalks]

No, you proved my point. You literally said 36 is about the average in your first post. I quoted it above. Then you listed the ages of champs (without doing the complete year by year that I said was necessary). If I had to guess, the average age is 32 in a given year, which is skewed a bit by all the years Anderson was champ. Still, it's nowhere near 36.

You can finally admit you're wrong, or continue to project, lie and double down. Either way, your reasoning and conclusions are way off. I've proven that and am done here. Bye.

My bad, I misspoke. I didn’t mean that 36 is the average age of a champ, I meant that it’s very common for the MW champ to be around that age.

 

[GOATtalks]

So Ngannou a better fighter than MM.

Yes, most definitely if you look from the perspective of a WW or MW fighter to beat one of them, Ngannou definitely is way harder to beat than MM. You also need to understand that different body types give different qualities. MM speed and agility comes from his small size. Ngannou’s power and strength comes from his. MM will never have Ngannou’s power and Ngannou will never have MM’s speed. It doesn’t mean that MM is a better fighter just because he’s faster and has better technique. Weight classes were created to give guy’s like MM, who are inferior to guy’s like Ngannou a chance to compete and be great. It’s like if the NBA had 5’5 division. Would you call those guys better than LeBron, knowing they would never beat him?

 

[GOATtalks]

Lmfao that is not “the data”…

You are cherry picking and bringing up outliers that actually undermine your argument and support the one your are against. Again the exception proves the rule.

That’s literally every UFC MW champ ever and the age they were at when they held the belt. I didn’t cherry pick anything.