Clearing myths: Usman isn’t an elite win

[Miokink026]

There are no MW wins right now better than Marty. Look at the division. Alex is gone. So you got Izzy, Strickland,Plussis and Whitaker. How many of them you taking over Marty? I get picking Izzys cause hes 6 ft 4.but the rest are all WW sized.

I think WW has been a better division than MW these last few years. I don't mean "better P4P" either I mean better better if their top 5s and top 10s fought WW would win most of them a year or two back. Whitaker almost lost to Darren Till.

"the rest are all WW sized"

with your tag I'd have thought you'd knew better. Whittaker walks around at 217 lbs. That's WW? It's quite easy to see everyone, including current Strickland, is bigger and more suited to the weight class. Fact is, a win over a short notice career WW shouldn't get you a title shot at MW, at the very least it should be after DDP gets his.

 

[Portland8242]

People way overestimate how big Marty is.

With those pencil legs I doubt he's ever been 200lbs in the cage. Take a guy like DDP who's taller, just as big as Usman in the upper body and has tree trunk legs. He'd look fucking tiny beside DDP..

 

[pankrat]

We used to have a poster by the name of @gonobtw who made very interesting pieces deconstructing shertard myths.
He was a weird but knowledgeable and witty dude.

It's very sad that he got banned and now we have this textbook noob shertard trying to emulate those masterful pieces.

 

[Nova44]

Nah, this is just another “fighter lost, he was never that good” with a different wrapping.

Agreed. Half of this forum was quick to label Usman as the WW GOAT during his reign, but a few fights later and one division up he's not even elite? lol mma fans man, they never change.

 

[pankrat]

Hes 15-3 before this fight had wins over all his opponents. 6 wins over UFC champs. I have Jones and MM higher. I know GSP fans don't like the "MMA evolution argument" but if you put GSP ahead how many others? Volk just lost too.

lol at ranking Usman above Silva or Aldo

 

[Yep]

Agreed. Half of this forum was quick to label Usman as the WW GOAT during his reign, but a few fights later and one division up he's not even elite? lol mma fans man, they never change.

I mean there’s alot of people on this forum so unless they’re the same people it doesn’t matter. And a few losses later and a division up and short notice and he’s the smaller man while normally being the bigger man does mean that we are no longer comparing apples to apples. He could be a different guy at MW. The reality is you don’t know. I do t know. Nobody on this forum really knows. His next fight at MW will tell us if he’s fallen off or he is too small for MW at this time. Other than that, most of OP points are lame. Because other people accomplished stuff at their age doesn’t mean shit in regards to Usman. Usman is definitely small (currently) for MW. Bad knees get worse. And so on.

 

[NoSmilez]

We used to have a poster by the name of @gonobtw who made very interesting pieces deconstructing shertard myths.
He was a weird but knowledgeable and witty dude.

It's very sad that he got banned and now we have this textbook noob shertard trying to emulate those masterful pieces.

Gono made up MMA history. He would watch old fights and make up his own narrative. He watches the fights years after it happened and he is missing a ton of context. I get what he is trying to do but it shouldn't be interpreted as facts.

 

[pankrat]

Gono made up MMA history. He would watch old fights and make up his own narrative. He watches the fights years after it happened and he is missing a ton of context. I get what he is trying to do but it shouldn't be interpreted as facts.

Yeah not saying he was a legit MMA historian, or that he didnt have serious bias and absurd takes.

But he actually did deep researchs and watched ton of footage. I used to ask him where to find rare, old fights and he usually found them for me.

Definitely had more perspective and sustance than these noobs/sherbro types as TS who even his username "GOATalks" is pretty telling lol

 

[rakeleaves]

Elite = top10 at least. Usman isn`t ranked top10 at MW. Therefore, Usman isn`t an elite win at MW.

syl·lo·gism
/ˈsiləˌjiz(ə)m/
noun
noun: syllogism; plural noun: syllogisms

1. an instance of a form of reasoning in which a conclusion is drawn from two given or assumed propositions (premises), each of which shares a term with the conclusion, and shares a common or middle term not present in the conclusion (e.g., all dogs are animals; all animals have four legs; therefore all dogs have four legs ).

 

[rakeleaves]

There are no MW wins right now better than Marty. Look at the division. Alex is gone. So you got Izzy, Strickland,Plussis and Whitaker. How many of them you taking over Marty? I get picking Izzys cause hes 6 ft 4.but the rest are all WW sized.

I think WW has been a better division than MW these last few years. I don't mean "better P4P" either I mean better better if their top 5s and top 10s fought WW would win most of them a year or two back. Whitaker almost lost to Darren Till.

Usman has to actually prove it then by beating some top MWs. Until then, everything is conjecture.

 

[Shammon]

I wish people would just pick a hand instead of flip flopping.

Before the fight Usman was an old, shot, no knees sacrificial lamb who Khamzat was going to murk in mere seconds.

Now Sherdog's golden boy struggled against him, when he took the fight on short notice with no camp no less, Usman is once again the elite of the elite, his 4 rounds to 1 loss to Edwards was "razor thin and could have gone either way"

We saw the same thing with Burns. Before fighting Khamzat he was an undersized, not very durable, finished by Usman's jab, murder victim in waiting.

After he beat the shit out of Khamzat and gave as good as he got, Sherdog did a 180 and started the narrative that Burns is a mythical fighter that would cook the rest of the division with ease. Since then he beat Neil Magny like every ranked fighter does, decisoned the ghost of Masvidal and lost comprehensively to Belal who had none of the issues Khamzat did.

Why are Khamzat opponents lambs for the slaughter before the fight and unbeatable monsters after the fight when Chimaev doesn't have his way with them?

I'm a Khamzat fan but guilty as charged on all accounts <45>

Genuinely believed Burns and Usman stood no chance. Not sure what Khammy's issue is. Maybe he needs to change camps and get a more cerebral coach.

 

[mkt]

Gono made up MMA history. He would watch old fights and make up his own narrative. He watches the fights years after it happened and he is missing a ton of context. I get what he is trying to do but it shouldn't be interpreted as facts.

I agree. I watched the sport from its beginning and took part in the original AOL NHB forums. We figured out some of the Gracie shenanigans early on and some of the fighters would come on there and chat occasionally. We also had people on there like Mark Tripp (he coached Severn after the Royce loss and his brother Ron beat Rickson in sambo). I used to go back and forth with Gono about Gracie lies/propaganda in the early days but he defended them like they were his literal brothers.

 

[Stump]

I don't know which argument I like more

1. Somebody else was able to win a fight older and that means by default Usman can't be old, or
2. Two years and two losses ago Usman was excellent so he must be excellent today as well.

I think those are both great, but to my taste, the best Is

1. There are multiple strong lines of evidence that both of Usman's knees are fucked, but we've known about his knee problems for a long time, therefore he somehow seems to be immune to the need for functioning knees, so this doesn't matter.

 

[vivi]

It’s an elite win with an asterix next to it. I still rate it though

 

[RockyLockridge]

Stopped reading at the first point.

 

[WallNStallToeStomper]

here let me clear your myth. yes he is

 

[RockyLockridge]

There are no MW wins right now better than Marty. Look at the division. Alex is gone. So you got Izzy, Strickland,Plussis and Whitaker. How many of them you taking over Marty? I get picking Izzys cause hes 6 ft 4.but the rest are all WW sized.

I think WW has been a better division than MW these last few years. I don't mean "better P4P" either I mean better better if their top 5s and top 10s fought WW would win most of them a year or two back. Whitaker almost lost to Darren Till.

I’d take all 4 of them to beat usman. I’d also take vettori and Cannonier over him

 

[pankrat]

I’d take all 4 of them to beat usman. I’d also take vettori and Cannonier over him

Cannonier probably. Vettori I highly doubt it

 

[ThePatriot]

It was a decent win

i was more impressed by Usman though, if it was 5 rds, or khamzat didnt roid crotch dive the first round it would be an easy usman decision

 

[IronGolem007]

There’s this narrative between Shertards that Kamaru isn’t an elite win because he’s a 36 year old, shot knee, washed up WW on short notice, so a win over him at MW doesn’t mean shit.

Let’s break it down:

1- Age. Is 36 a lot for MW?

Anderson was the champ till 38 years old.
Bisping held the belt at 38.
GSP won the belt at 36.
Pereira won the belt at 35.
Izzy held the belt at 34.

So 36yo is right about the average age for a MW champ. Point dismissed

2- Shot knees.

Usman had knee problems even before his title reign at WW, so it’s not something new or a deciding factor in this fight.

3- Washed up.

Just a little bit more than a year ago, Kamaru was considered p4p #1 fighter in the world. His first loss was against Leon, where he was convincingly winning the fight till he got caught by a headkick that would’ve finished anyone. Even the 2nd fight was much more competitive than many give credit for. It was a majority decision after all. And in Khamzat fight he looked very good and that fight should’ve been scored a draw. So no, Kamaru isn’t shot.

4- Usman is a WW.

Usman was a huge WW and wrestled at 174 and 185 pounds in high school. He’s 6 foot tall and has 76 inch reach and walks around over 200 lbs. He also ragdolled the current MW champ when they fought each other. So no, Usman isn’t too small for MW.

5- Short notice.

Usman fought back in March. He took some time to heal and recover and has been back in the gym for a while now. He was looking for an opponent and calling out Khamzat, so in a way he was already preparing for him. He didn’t need to cut that much weight either, so he could put in some good training in last weeks as well. Bisping beat Rockhold on short notice too, so it’s not out of the ordinary.

In conclusion, there isn’t anything really to write Usman off on this one. Would’ve he beat Khamzat a year ago with a full camp? Maybe.

The fact is that Usman is still an elite win, even at MW.

Pretty solid analysis, thanks for the effort.

However, "the PS" is, Khamzat Chimaev was starting to lose by mid-Round 2.
I think if that was a five round fight, Usman would've taken them out of there.
Kamaru was cracking him in the strikes, and Chimaev was starting to falter with his takedowns.
Usman's striking was noticeably superior, and more powerful.

Full-camp, anti-wrestle-trained Usman waxes Chimaev's ass in the Championship rounds.