Choy Li Fut VS Muay Thai

[devante]

getting a little heated in here huh

 

[Snubnoze707]

Also, what's this dance and choreographed nonsense? Man, Muay Thai must be horrible!

Ya, and unlike the videos you posted of Choy Li Fut, after the Nak Muay finishes their Ram Muay they has a competitive technical 5 round fight without headgear, chest protectors and shin guards. You're not going to win anybody over to Choy Li Fut with that sloppy mess you posted.

 

[LEGS MAHONEY]

OK... So you have some sloppy boxing sparring, forms, sloppy amature fights, and padwork. Where are the fights showing that these guys can compete with top Nak Muay? I'm not seeing it...

You know i recall asking you to learn to read along time ago and I'm glad to see you took my advice.:icon_chee

He asked for examples of the style where they weren't doing forms or demos and i provided them. Now do i have to draw you a pretty picture to go along with this explanation peaches or do you think you got it? Seriously i will I'm quite the artiste ill have you know.:icon_chee

As far as muay thai goes who the fuck knows? This whole thread was based off a supposed quote from Bruce lee that we know nothing about. For all we know he was misquoted.

 

[LEGS MAHONEY]

getting a little heated in here huh

It was only a matter of time honestly. People get touchy and defend their style like people defend their religions.

 

[LEGS MAHONEY]

bah i forgot! That well known sanda coach in Ny david ross is based in Choy lay fut too . His guys compete in mma and Mt too. I know its a successful gym for fighters but i am not sure what level they have gotten to in MT though.


Edit: This Ross fellow posts regularly on different Ma forums. If i see him i will ask him if theres anything behind Lee's quoteas he knows Hi CLF history very well..

 

[Payak]

i also asked for clips of guys that can actually fight, those clips were really a sad example if you posted them to prove a point.
that was horrible, look like they have not trained a day.
please post something worth watching.

 

[masterless]

Sorry to break it to you guys but Bruce Lee wasnt infallible. We all love and cherish his efforts but that quote (was from what the 1960's?) doesnt necessarily make the statement true. He might of seen some potential for CLF being better than MT but it doesnt mean that its freakin gospel. Id argue that MT has proven itself to be the superior form of striking. Perhaps he saw that a CLF practicioner who could take down a MT practicioner (very little TDD in MT) and beat them there.

 

[LEGS MAHONEY]

i also asked for clips of guys that can actually fight, those clips were really a sad example if you posted them to prove a point.
that was horrible, look like they have not trained a day.
please post something worth watching.

Or another idea would be you not trying to save face when you're incorrect.

You first jump to a conclusion because you didn't read. Someone points it out then you try to back peddle and say "oh no what i meant was" then someone corrects you again and you do the same thing. Learn when to admit fault bud.:redface:

http://www.youtube.com/user/nysanda

theres more of the fights from that gym that has CLf mixed in

 

[Payak]

i never asked for anything other then some clips.
clips showing good fighting skills, so why do i need to back peddle or save face.
all this talk about it and still no clips, you have not produced the goods so you need to save face.
im not here to argue, just to see some clips showing something,we live in the information age, google midgets banging donkeys and most likely something will come up.
so why can we not get a good choy li fut clip, not one.
i believe only what i see, if i see i will praise the art highly, i sparred rani raya and was submitted many times, now i must praise bjj as they show, not just talk.

 

[Payak]

read my signiture, you must understand i am not saying choy li fut is not good.
i am simply saying i have not been shown anything yet and peoples word is not enough.
my be great, i dont know, i will wait until i see, until then i must go by what i see and that was not good.

 

[LEGS MAHONEY]

Actually you just starting spouting off about them punching in the air and then went on to make another slew of obtuse statements that had nothing to do with the question in the op. I suspect you were irrationally offended at the notion of another style beating MT and then proceeded to bash CLf because the honor of your system was perceived to be at stake to you. As i noted above many people on here get like this and then it turns into a fight over "your style sucks!! No yours does!"

Now again in response i linked you to the youtube clips of a well known and regarded kickboxing and mma gym in New York whos head coach has an extensive background in Clf and has his guys compete in Mt, sanda and Mma. Theres plenty of vids of them fighting, sparring doing workshops with other known coaches etc,etc kncok yourself out.

 

[LEGS MAHONEY]

Of course peoples word is not enough. This Clf vs muay thai story may have something to do with that rumored shaolin vs Mt competition that happened sometime in the 40s i believe. But in the past linked an article written by Anthony Graceffo debunking the notion that this match up happened at all and if this story is related to it then case closed. Ill try to find the link.

 

[Payak]

muay thai is not the only good art out there, i am aware of that.
you jump to many conclusions, such as the conclusion that muay thai is my art.
I began first in boxing 31 yrs ago, when i was about 4.
did not find muay thai until i was 14, 21 yrs ago.
little later muay boran and krabi krabong.
have also dabbled in bjj a little, and catch wrestling.
also silat.
so what is my style
i have no fear of anyone thinking there style is better then muay thai, does not matter.
as long as we can defend ourselves, i am not interested in being the best, not even the best in the room.
only interestested in being better then any man who attacks should i be unfortunate enough to have to fight.
i love muay thai, but no one is invincible, so it s what it is, a flawed art like all arts.
so i seek to reduce those flaws elswhere,
but i will always speak openly, i saw some clips and did not like what i saw.
each to there own.

 

[Payak]

my arts lack ground fighting skills, and a certain amount of small joint manipulation, i get this fron boran and silat.
i admit muay thai has faults, but it gives amazing stand up, unmatched in my opinion.
but thats my opinion.
show me a clip and dont expect anything other then an honest answer, dont get sand in your vagina because i said the clf clips looked bad, if they looked good i will say so.
i have been to nathan rd park in hong kong, seen some impressive kung fu,
however those clf clips were bad, should i lie, would you not be better served hearing the truth.
we should all be open and honest here.

 

[Payak]

i should also point out when i say i dabbled in bjj i mean it, im really bad at that.
i prefer to strike on the ground

 

[Jukai]

Ya, and unlike the videos you posted of Choy Li Fut, after the Nak Muay finishes their Ram Muay they has a competitive technical 5 round fight without headgear, chest protectors and shin guards. You're not going to win anybody over to Choy Li Fut with that sloppy mess you posted.

LOL... you do know that was an staged fight, right? They were pretty much doing traditional Embu.

@Payak: I didn't even watch the video clips, all you asked was for some clips. I have no idea the level of the fighters. I also have no idea how the top cream of the crop of Choy Li Fut would hold up against Muay Thai, personally I think very few things could hold up against a top-level Muay Thai guy. Half of that is the art, but the other half is the dedication of many Muay Thai fighters goes beyond anything I've ever seen. That's never here nor there though. All I wanted to show was that Choy Li Fut wasn't some mystical Shaolin nonsense where they fight as a crane and do flip kicks. It can have practical application and people can fight in tournaments and win with it. At the highest level? Tough to say. But you can train in this and hold your own, that much is clear.

I do think Muay Thai misses one big concept and that's sweeping. I don't actually know this, may as well ask it: Does MT have sweeps and it's just not used in tournaments, or are their no sweeps in MT?

 

[Payak]

yes we sweep a great deal.
taught many many sweeps.
you know if i met a clf practitioner today i would invite him in to exchange ideas, i am really quite open.
always willing to learn, just our culture can confuse sometimes.
if we see for eg something we think does not look good we put it very very bluntly, but that does not mean we will still not look at it further.
i love exploring other arts and did so in hong kong every morning, invite myself to many classes in the park.

 

[Payak]

i should refrase, i dont think clf is bad, only what i have seen of it so far is far from impressive.
does not mean it is bad as i may have seen poor eg of the art.
but they were posted as eg so i thought that was perhaps high level clf.
if so clf is in need of serious work, but again, i probably witness poor eg of the art.
until i see good cannot form good oppinion,
mutton will always taste bad until you are fed lamb,until then you will stick to beef.

 

[Inquisitus]

So the clips provided show CLF exponents participating in Sanda/Sanshou/kickboxing competitions.

But they all look like kickboxers. That NYsanda page has a lot of kickboxing & MMA but the techniques are not similar to CLF at all.

When i watch Machida, i can see the Shotokan karate in his stance, punching, and tactics.. etc. It's not the same with CLF.

So the question is if these guys are really doing CLF or Sanda/sanshou/MMA?

 

[Snubnoze707]

LOL... you do know that was an staged fight, right? They were pretty much doing traditional Embu.

I was speaking in general. Didn't even watch that video...