Choy Li Fut VS Muay Thai

I want to learn Wing Chun blocks and counters one day.
 
Jukai said:
Guy Mezger was actually a Korean martial art though, similar to Karate but not quite. It was one of the pre-TKD Kwon arts, but I'm too lazy to look up what it exactly was.
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Tang Soo Do?
 
KBE6EKCTAH_CCP said:
^^^
Don't put words in my mouth. And don't even try to blend all karates together. Kyokushin, shidokan, sendokaikan are all great full contact styles.

Shotokan isn't and as such is also an inferior style. I don't care how many guys Lyoto Machida knocks out. People like you will keep on seeing a shotokan fighter being successful in a full contact context. Your choice. What I see is a very talented guy trained in boxing, wrestling and the usual components. This guys also happens to have an unconventional approach due to his shotokan approach which gives him an edge, fine. But he isn't a "shotokan fighter".
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machida has a shotokan base yes? machida used shotokan striking to ko rashad yes?
 
The era of style vs style is over. No one is using pure anything anymore. Just youtube a MT match in thailand. Doesnt it look totally different from what is shown in the cage? Take the kicking style of MT, use boxing footwork and hand work, add some effective kicks from TKD to your arsenal, learn front kicks from Steven Seagal, and you have an effective stand up system. Maybe take a trip to Rikers Island and learn some 52 blocks. Keep adding and discarding.
 
Jukai said:
I know he was.
There are plenty of youtube videos of Choy Lee Fut fighters competing in kickboxing and Sanda tournaments, and holding their own. It's not some mystical ninjitsu or kung fu shit which has no practical application. Can you make it work at the highest of levels? I don't know. But saying it is unproven when this is one of the few Kung Fu styles that actively updates itself and actually will compete in kickboxing and sanshou/sanda tournaments is ignorant.
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Can you please post a few links?

Also you stated Choy Lee Fut is one of the few Gong Fu styles that update itself and actually will compete. What other Gong Fu system do this?
 
Jukai said:
What I don't get is, people fully accept that to use Muay Thai, Kickboxing or Boxing in MMA, you have to alter it quite a bit and the product in the end looks different... but for Karate and other arts, if you alter it for MMA, then you hear "wow, so and so art isn't effective so they have to change it up. That tma/bullshido/mcdojo art sucks!"

The double standards are fascinating and aggravating.
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Well said. The description of a "pure" martial doesn't make sense nor does the use of that description in an argument. Every person will interpret the art differently, having preference for certain techniques or approaches. This is in part because every person brings their own strengths and weaknesses in terms of size, strenght, speed and mental dispositions. Ofcourse they are going to fight different from other fighters in their "pure" art. Just look at the many different ways that boxers fight boxers.

Then you add the different requirements of a situation. Being able to kick someone in the face is great until you are wearing tight jeans which wont let you stretch that high. Being able to grapple someone unconcious is great until his friend stomps on your face. The guard is a great defensive posture until the ruleset allows the top guy to start raining down headbuts into your face. So any martial artist, whether they are from a "pure" or not, must be able to utlise their given strengths whilst compensating for their given weaknesses in the context of the immediate situation. This means that adaptable martial systems have a greater claim for being effective that static contained systems.

Then you add the cultural shaping of each art. Grappling arts can be very effective but if you are raised in a culture where grappling is seen as "gay/soft/not real fighting/etc" then you are not likely to use grappling techniques in a real fight. The same goes with kicking. I remember when I was a kid that "kicking was for girls" so you didn't kick because it was seen as dirty and weak, even though kicking can be very useful. I remember speaking once to my grandpa who boxed in the Yugoslav army about my muay thai. He looked at me in absolute disgust when I told him that we kicked in our martial art. The utility of a art/technique does not equal the prevalence of that technique/art.

"Pure" muay thai or "pure" boxing (yes, I'm being facetious) is great but they needed to be adapted to work under the MMA ruleset. It is perfectly acceptable to me for the same understanding to be applied to other martial arts (e.g. kung fu styles) without diluting the respect for that "pure" art.
 
choy lee fut is a strong style but i am not convinced that it will be 100% effective against muay thai.
 
Choy Lay Fut is just as garbage as Wing Chun or any chop socky Kung Fu styles. It's crap and it's a waste of time.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ritskQX9790

not too bad?

Just think about 10 years ago how many people would use back kick in mma?

May be not the whole CLF,WC or other TMA styles can be used, however some technique from them seem decent.

Hand trapping was considered unrealistic because of the range problem,but after Hendrick vs Lawler 1, we found that hand trapping range is possible, may be in the next few years we will see some fighters focus on fighting in trapping range.

I train in MT but MA1 is better than MA2 is just silly
 
Ohhhh, back in the days where I actually gave a shit.
 
mjw1 said:
"Choy Li Fut is the most effective system that I've seen for fighting more than one person. [It] is one of the most difficult styles to attack and defend against. Choy Li Fut is the only style [of kung fu] that traveled to Thailand to fight the Thai boxers and hadn't lost."
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farsun97 said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ritskQX9790

not too bad?

Just think about 10 years ago how many people would use back kick in mma?

May be not the whole CLF,WC or other TMA styles can be used, however some technique from them seem decent.

Hand trapping was considered unrealistic because of the range problem,but after Hendrick vs Lawler 1, we found that hand trapping range is possible, may be in the next few years we will see some fighters focus on fighting in trapping range.

I train in MT but MA1 is better than MA2 is just silly
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I think part of the reason that Hendricks and Lawlor fell into hand trapping one another was because neither of them were used to fighting another southpaw, so they just kept slapping at each other's arms out of annoyance. Southpaws usually use their lead the control their opponents lead because they usually fight orthodox opponents. When they were in same stances, both hands were close for trapping. Correct me if I am wrong, but they didn't do nearly as much hand trapping in their sequel - probably because they were now used to southpaw vs southpaw at the championship level.

Then again, I could just be sleep deprived, since I've been dealing with my four year old throwing up on me all night.

TMI?
 
wilddeuces said:
I think part of the reason that Hendricks and Lawlor fell into hand trapping one another was because neither of them were used to fighting another southpaw, so they just kept slapping at each other's arms out of annoyance. Southpaws usually use their lead the control their opponents lead because they usually fight orthodox opponents. When they were in same stances, both hands were close for trapping. Correct me if I am wrong, but they didn't do nearly as much hand trapping in their sequel - probably because they were now used to southpaw vs southpaw at the championship level.

Then again, I could just be sleep deprived, since I've been dealing with my four year old throwing up on me all night.

TMI?
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can relate i had that issue w/my two year old not so long ago, lol; so i know how hard it is..


most people don't trap because they don't know how handtrap/handfight; in that fight you had two guys who were able to do so which imo made for some high level attacks/defenses and counters..

these things work, you can't do it movie style; but an initial trap or a counter one isn't diff to do in a sparring/fight situation, i seen it before..had it done to me as well.

Pulling a guys hand out of position, pinning someone's arm/hand in their guard, parrying/misdirecting a guys strike or attempt to clinch, etc...etc; all these things are ex of handfighting/trapping imo.
 
farsun97 said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ritskQX9790

not too bad?

Just think about 10 years ago how many people would use back kick in mma?

May be not the whole CLF,WC or other TMA styles can be used, however some technique from them seem decent.

Hand trapping was considered unrealistic because of the range problem,but after Hendrick vs Lawler 1, we found that hand trapping range is possible, may be in the next few years we will see some fighters focus on fighting in trapping range.

I train in MT but MA1 is better than MA2 is just silly
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It's pretty bad. But we could also be looking at two particularly terrible practitioners (ponytail seems particularly bad).

10 years ago sounds like a lot, but there were still a lot of well-rounded guys back then. I don't know how many back kicks may have been thrown, but the kickboxing and muay Thai influence was pretty well ingrained. A reliance on this style would have gotten people knocked out pretty brutally. Between that stance and those goofy street fight, windmill haymakers they're throwing. And the attempts at grappling were pretty absurd.
 
Watsurgol said:
That's a good question, why don't we see more MSG in the UFC?
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probably due to the Culinary Union

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I'll be here all week, folks...
 
KOPower24 said:
No. Choy Li Fut is a good fight style, but it cannot beat Muay Thai in a pure fighting sense. For fancy name it wins hands down though.
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I heard Oppa Gang Nam Style is the best. It is too elusive for Muay Thai fighters.
 
Just gonna leave this here...

Black pants is doing gwa choy (back fist), kup choy (long hook), sow choy (long over hand), pow choy (long upper cut), and charp choy (heavy lead straight/jab).... the bread & butter CLF techniques. Even pulls off some combos straight out of the forms. No champ, but he got in there, used his stuff, and didn't get killed.

http://youtu.be/Imk8M0I2Mus
 
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