Boy scouts to admit girls. Why?

[PainIsLIfe]

Possible, it's just interesting because the Girl Scouts are leading that charge that the Boy Scouts are just trying to prop up enrollment. The enrollment numbers were dropping long before they allowed gay scout leaders. They've been on a steady decline for decades at this point.

But I think enrollment is dropping because there are so many other things that kids can be involved in for the same purpose. Team sports being the most popular right now.

Sports is a big one. Years ago kids played a couple sports for a short season now everything is travel ball, aau, and multiple seasons on top of regular rec league.

 

[all caps]

Please don't get me wrong, as a white hetero cisgender male I can never truly understand the life you've been forced to lead, the constant pressure to fail being placed on you by the White Patriarchy. I'm not trying to judge you, belittle your feelings or engage in other oppressive behaviours and if you felt that way it's on me for trying to push my views on you despite you not having the privileges I've had.

This is a good start.

 

[panamaican]

I think the contention is that boys increasingly have fewer and fewer male spaces to be socialized in and this is just another encroachment. The lower enrollment in the BSA tells me not that boys don't need this sort of gendered space but rather that the interest in the outdoor activities of the BSA is waning. Nowadays kids grow up exposed to technology at increasingly earlier ages and that's going to be pulling their interest away from outdoor activities.

Increasingly I agree with this. And from my POV its just as much the peer to peer socializing within the gendered environment as the environment itself. Which is to say the role of the organization is to structure the socializing in such a way so that its productive and not toxic and then let the boys be boys within those limits.

I should have been more clear about the BSA space not being needed. I meant the outdoor space, not the space for boys.

Although, I do think that the idea of there being fewer and fewer spaces for males is an interesting complaint when juxtaposed against the general complaints that people have of Islam. Taken to it's logical conclusion, traditional Islam and segregating of the sexes fall right in line with the need to create male specific safe spaces.

It's probably one of the more intriguing elements out there. The simultaneous rejection of Islam while arguing for a social return of many of the things that Islam seeks to embody and spread, absent the violence and forced conversions of course, lol.

 

[cincymma79]

Girl Scouts is ducking lame that's why they should be let in Boy Scouts

 

[HomerThompson]

Trail Life USA, baby!

Trail Life USA is a Christian Outdoor Adventure, Character, and Leadership Program for boys and young men.

Operating from Troops that are chartered through churches in 48 states, the K-12 program centers on outdoor experiences that build a young man’s skills and allow him to grow on a personal level and as a role model and leader for his peers.

Living the Trail Life is a journey established on timeless values derived from the Bible.

*Also, there is lots of molesting.

 

[Brodels]

Ridiculous. Why can't have separate groups for anything anymore? Unless your black or gay/trans that is. I wonder how many real and fake rape charges come out of this.

 

[Islam Imamate]

I should have been more clear about the BSA space not being needed. I meant the outdoor space, not the space for boys.

Although, I do think that the idea of there being fewer and fewer spaces for males is an interesting complaint when juxtaposed against the general complaints that people have of Islam. Taken to it's logical conclusion, traditional Islam and segregating of the sexes fall right in line with the need to create male specific safe spaces.

It's probably one of the more intriguing elements out there. The simultaneous rejection of Islam while arguing for a social return of many of the things that Islam seeks to embody and spread, absent the violence and forced conversions of course, lol.

I've talked about something related to this, about how perhaps Islam attracts some people because of its gendered organization. Men find fraternal bonding and women find sisterhood. The mosque is ground zero for this as the men and women separate, chit-chat a bit before and after the prayer, then reunite with their families and leave. Its a constant in their communities and it unites the sexes across generations which I think can be positive for boys and girls. In practice it can also be oppressive and brutal but my experience growing up within that culture was rather innocuous.

Anyway, I don't think the West has to be consumed by the caliphate to capture some of that magic. I think there should be gendered spaces that are frequented throughout an individuals life cycle and in various forms such as age group specific and cross generational and it could be based on shared interest or activities. I remember reading an article about how in the 19th and early 20th century there was no conception of the "youth vote" because young people were socialized into politics by their elders, usually in gender specific ways. Something like might have value.

 

[all caps]

I should have been more clear about the BSA space not being needed. I meant the outdoor space, not the space for boys.

Although, I do think that the idea of there being fewer and fewer spaces for males is an interesting complaint when juxtaposed against the general complaints that people have of Islam. Taken to it's logical conclusion, traditional Islam and segregating of the sexes fall right in line with the need to create male specific safe spaces.

It's probably one of the more intriguing elements out there. The simultaneous rejection of Islam while arguing for a social return of many of the things that Islam seeks to embody and spread, absent the violence and forced conversions of course, lol.

Pretty disappointing post if I'm being honest. The need for some boys to have a positive male role model in a western civilization vs the need of someone in a shit hole looking for any reason to live. One would be a positive way to deter extremism, one would be extremism

 

[panamaican]

Pretty disappointing post if I'm being honest. The need for some boys to have a positive male role model in a western civilization vs the need of someone in a shit hole looking for any reason to live. One would be a positive way to deter extremism, one would be extremism

Of course it's disappointing if you completely misunderstood what I said.

I didn't say anything about male role models. I referenced safe spaces for males to be males. A male role model in a mixed gender space is different from a space set aside exclusively for the male gender.

Moreover, I'm speaking about the arguments that are raised for why a gender exclusive environment is necessary for men. Then juxtapose those arguments against the arguments that traditional Islam presents for why men and women should have clearly separated roles in society. You'll find areas of overlap. If you take the former to its logical conclusion you end up with something that more closely resembles Islam than modern Western society.

Again, nothing about role models is addressed in the above post.

 

[panamaican]

I've talked about something related to this, about how perhaps Islam attracts some people because of its gendered organization. Men find fraternal bonding and women find sisterhood. The mosque is ground zero for this as the men and women separate, chit-chat a bit before and after the prayer, then reunite with their families and leave. Its a constant in their communities and it unites the sexes across generations which I think can be positive for boys and girls. In practice it can also be oppressive and brutal but my experience growing up within that culture was rather innocuous.

Anyway, I don't think the West has to be consumed by the caliphate to capture some of that magic. I think there should be gendered spaces that are frequented throughout an individuals life cycle and in various forms such as age group specific and cross generational and it could be based on shared interest or activities. I remember reading an article about how in the 19th and early 20th century there was no conception of the "youth vote" because young people were socialized into politics by their elders, usually in gender specific ways. Something like might have value.

I don't know if it does or doesn't have value. I'd imagine that there's a divergence there based on if you're a woman or a man. The primary difference between these traditional value sets and modern value sets is that when you assign roles and spaces by gender, you are naturally excluding one gender from aspects of society that they might wish to participate in.

A return to slightly more traditional value sets is attractive if it doesn't come with a reduction in your gender's sense of agency. I don't know how you sell to women that a reduction in their agency is important for the stability of society. Most cultures that do this also have steep punishments for violating the gender expectations. Which is to be expected because without the punishment system, people will constantly push for more agency, not less.

 

[Islam Imamate]

I don't know if it does or doesn't have value. I'd imagine that there's a divergence there based on if you're a woman or a man. The primary difference between these traditional value sets and modern value sets is that when you assign roles and spaces by gender, you are naturally excluding one gender from aspects of society that they might wish to participate in.

A return to slightly more traditional value sets is attractive if it doesn't come with a reduction in your gender's sense of agency. I don't know how you sell to women that a reduction in their agency is important for the stability of society. Most cultures that do this also have steep punishments for violating the gender expectations. Which is to be expected because without the punishment system, people will constantly push for more agency, not less.

I'm more of a carrots than sticks kind of guy when it comes to enforcing traditional values. In this case the gendered spaces I'm talking about are all voluntary associations. Think clubs at schools or books clubs or even religious spaces. Places that aren't mandatory but that most people will likely have some contact with throughout their life.

 

[panamaican]

I'm more of a carrots than sticks kind of guy when it comes to enforcing traditional values. In this case the gendered spaces I'm talking about are all voluntary associations. Think clubs at schools or books clubs or even religious spaces. Places that aren't mandatory but that most people will likely have some contact with throughout their life.

I think that so long as gender exclusivity itself is not mandatory, society will self sort. The BSA admitting girls would fall into that category. Most girls probably won't apply to the Boy Scouts, those that want to can. Contrasted with the previous version where no girl could join and the voluntary model certainly balances 2 interests.

The problem we're seeing in Western society is that as places have opened up gendered roles within voluntary associations, there has been a certain pushback to make those places gender exclusive again.

It's an interesting problem in the U.S. where many people are confusing what's private space with what's public space. In that they want to reap the rewards of being in the public space while continuing to operate as if they're purely in the private space. I don't know if the problem is that government has entered so many spaces that few of them truly private anymore or if people have become so entitled that they don't want to deal with the limitations of being truly private entities.