BJ Penn is 16-10-2

[eddymotto]

For true supporters of BJ, wins and losses don't matter. Well, the wins definitely count but the losses not so much.

That's the genius of fighting above your weight class I guess. I mean, he couldn't really beat anybody but Hughes (an odd thing to write of course) above 155 but at least he tried and he was competitive at least some of the time. He also said all the right things for the just bleed crowd (just scrap baby) to make sure that we all understood that he was a real fighter, not some dude who was overly concerned with winning cuz that is not cool at all.

So if you believe in Baby J it is all about faith. Records don't matter because it as all about who & how he fought, not whether he won or loss. If you think winning matters, then it is perplexing that BJ didn't win more. Because it certainly seemed like he should have.

If you remember him wiping out Gomi and Hughes (the first time) back in the day, I would say that you remember him as probably the greatest P4P fighter in the world at that time. It also helps if you can conveniently forget him being unable to win the 155 belt before that by losing to Jens and drawing with Uno.

If you remember him returning to the UFC and fighting GSP to a standstill (well, not quite a standstill because he lost) and dominating Hughes before somehow losing to him (cardio aside, I still firmly believe his rib was fucked up after the 2nd round) you remember him as a real force at 170.

Somebody on this forum made a convincing argument to me that Frankie is the 155 GOAT. At the time it seemed convincing. But my heart tells be that BJ is still the greatest at 155.

I guess I will just remember him as a guy who I always wanted to see fight in his heyday. Plus he smashed Hughes who I always cheered against.

 

[Cooliox]

just let that sink in.... he's not even in my 50 greatest of all time...

Why do so many people pretend to be mma fans?

 

[JonnyRingo84]

In my opinion, Penn had all the skill and talent in the world, but he lacked the mentality it takes to be the best. He seemed to lose it mentally in a lot of fights and wilt when the going got tough, or when he was actually challenged. The fight last night was a complete mental shutdown. Guys that trained with BJ during this camp were talking about how amazing he still was, but when it came to game time, he folded........

when fighters who are used to stomping ass with ease face adversity, its like they lose their confidence. when they do that it seems like they think every move may be the wrong move, so unfortunately, their response is to make no moves. theyre frozen.

bj and cro cop are great examples of this.

sad

 

[Fraz]

Fighters are surpassing him left and right these days, not his fault he was a good fighter a few years ago, I'd say he just makes it into top 5 lightweight, won't be there for much longer though.

 

[Roids]

I only really watched Penn from 2010 onwards and don't get all the hype because I just keep watching him get his ass beat.

 

[Reaperman]

when fighters who are used to stomping ass with ease face adversity, its like they lose their confidence. when they do that it seems like they think every move may be the wrong move, so unfortunately, their response is to make no moves. theyre frozen.

bj and cro cop are great examples of this.

sad

Cro Cop is another great example.

 

[Orochimaru 大蛇丸]

Can you even name 50 fighters TS?

 

[Turtleguard]

Reminds me of Randy's record.

 

[armbarforhire]

In JMMA yes but I don't think their stardom or talents really resonated as far as some of their descendants so to speak, like Aoki, for example. That being said... Sakuraba easily qualifies, arguably Kondo. It depends. I agree the bar needs to be adjusted for era but I think coming up with 50 would be harder than people realize. You would be putting guys like Brandon Vera near the bottom of that list.

Look at the guys that were invited to fight at the UFC in the mid 90s and they were elite in MMA.

 

[CageSage]

UFC has too high on him after seeing his pretty obvious decline, kept giving him the big fights that he was ultimately unwilling to be truly prepared for. Thats the reality, he'd have a better record if he:

A)trained harder
B)was given tune up fights and such like every other fighter who loses.

So i can't entirely blame him for his mediocre record.

 

[MCS]

put Edgar or Bendo against Hughes 3 times, GSP twice, Fitch, Renzo, Rodrigo, Machida, Rory and Nick Diaz and see if they have a great record after that. They won't do this, it's fucking crazy.

 

[DaveHilly]

BJ was never one of those guys that padded their resumes with a dozen fights before entering the UFC. With the exception of 2 guys, all of the fighters he's fought are well known. There are no cans in there. You gotta respect competing against the best fighters in the sport for his entire career.

He moved up weight to fight top level guys, too. He will go down as a guy that took chances and challenged himself, even if that did lead to him losing a few along the way. I respect that a hell of a lot more than just taking fights you know you can win.

 

[Fight To Win]

Edgar is a very good, but not great fighter in context of what we are talking about here.

He beat Penn in his prime - twice. How can Penn be a GOAT if a very good Edgar beat him so convincingly

To get around this, you might say that Penn was past his prime when Edgar fought him... but what GOAT has his prime end at 30 (unless to injury)?

He may not be the greatest fighter of all time, there is certainly a case for that. But to say fifty fighters have been without a doubt greater than Penn so far in MMA?

No. Saying twenty-five fighters have been greater than him would be an embarrassing stretch, not to mention very hard to prove.

 

[machidafan99]

There is NO case for BJ being the GOAT.

He may not be the greatest fighter of all time, there is certainly a case for that. But to say fifty fighters have been without a doubt greater than Penn so far in MMA?

No. Saying twenty-five fighters have been greater than him would be an embarrassing stretch, not to mention very hard to prove.

 

[BizMarkie]

put Edgar or Bendo against Hughes 3 times, GSP twice, Fitch, Renzo, Rodrigo, Machida, Rory and Nick Diaz and see if they have a great record after that. They won't do this, it's fucking crazy.

I second this opinion. BJ is an all time great along with others that never backed away from fighting bigger and sometimes better opponents. Couture's and Sakuraba's records are not even remotely great if one ignores what's behind the numbers.

 

[6AyTagR8]

He was 31 and should have been in his prime when he fought Rory, but he just embarrassed himself. Not to mention Sunday's fight, he is still not that old. I believe he has a a lot to prove and if he is any kind of athlete he will make a successful comeback.

 

[TonyK]

There are probably soke 30-0 guys in Brazil who built their records fighting 0-0 guys who sell watermelons for a living while some of the greatest, fan friendliest and toughest fighters ever have more than 10 losses on their record. What does that tell you?

 

[jmmj]

Not saying BJ is on the same level as this guy, but Sam Langford had a lot of L's on his record. Sam was still an ALL-time great.

 

[Furious George]

I said yesterday this would happen.

Years from now [and right now infact] stupid fans will look at his sub .500 record and say "whats the big deal?"

Fuck them. BJ was a legend and an ATG.

You guys wont be aware that BJ left the UFC because the guy people were calling #1 LW (Duane Ludwig) was in K-1 and BJ wanted to fight him, which he then won.

You wont understand how crazy at the time his win over Matt Hughes was, moving up a weight class to take out the big dog which nobody had ever done before and nobody thought BJ could do.

Or how he took Lyoto Machida to a decision 40lbs above his natural weight class, while Lyoto was 30lbs heavier than him.

 

[Furious George]

He was 31 and should have been in his prime when he fought Rory, but he just embarrassed himself. Not to mention Sunday's fight, he is still not that old. I believe he has a a lot to prove and if he is any kind of athlete he will make a successful comeback.

31? get fucked. BJ was 33 and had almost 12 years of fight experience on him. That does things to bodies. not to mention your assuming everybody has their prime and declines at the same time, which is BS, especially if you look at Shogun who is 31 and his body has been fucked for a good 5 or so years now, maybe more.