Big Nog vs Daniel Cormier in legacy

gono btw said:
Ya gottah love these "Not even close."...
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It's not close. Steroids make for entertaining fights but if you know what you're looking at and have been watching long enough, you would also know that skill has undoubtedly increased since then.
 
HendoIsChamp said:
It's not close. Steroids make for entertaining fights but if you know what you're looking at and have been watching long enough, you would also know that skill has undoubtedly increased since then.
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For sure, grappling-wise its not even "close"...

Volkov, Ngannou,Lewis, ol´Pride vets... Impressive...

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-16-the-2-hw-goats.3851935/

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...t-3-the-evolution-of-werdum´s-career.3831261/

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...skill-set-mma-evolution-the-hws-case.3815393/
 
Nog is still the second greatest HW of all time. DC has a greater general ranking than Nog, but not as a HW.
 
PEDS Help me Post said:
So they have fought high level sambo fighters? Which ones?
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How many Sambo/Judo guys have had success in MMA? There's a reason Cain and DC have been fighting at the highest level of MMA and never fought one. Cain/DC have no experience fighting Capoeira or Karate guys as well. Weird.

PEDS Help me Post said:
What does Fedor submitting BJJ black belts have to do with DC/Cain's experience fighting judo based fighters?
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You asked a rhetorical question so I asked one in return. Fedor has never submitted wrestlers of Cain/DC's level who happen to have BJJ black belts or even brown belts in MMA. He couldn't do it against black belt Bigfoot Silva and couldn't against LHW Arona. After getting ragdolled by 42 year old Coleman and Randleman, he took advantage of their BJJ weakness. That's it.
 
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nog stayed around too long and his legacy suffered because of it. real ones know where hes at all time wise but people look at his record and see his struggled in the end of his run. he should have retired after he beat randy or lost to cain
 
dabouv said:
He fought during a weaker era. He was pretty much done by 32 as an elite fighter. He is only a few years older per than "DC? Not is in the legends category but DC has had the better career. If he were to defend the Hwt title against legitimate contender, it makes his case stronger.
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Brah, the fuck you talking about? He literally fought during what's widely considered the BEST heavyweight era.
Big Nog probably has the greatest heavyweight resume of all time. DC's one of my favourite fighters but it's not that close imo.
He has wins over
Cro Cop, Barnett, Couture, Kharitonov, Werdum, Henderson, Coleman, Herring x3, Sylvia, Schilt, Rodriguez
Those are all top 3, top 5, top 10 guys at one point.
He was done by 32? Well he made his debut when he was 23 and had over 35 fights by 2008. DC didn't start fighting until he was 30.
 
Legacy means nothing, it's basically just "who do you like the most" and "whose wins will you try your best to interpret as being the best"

I like both but Noguiera has never defeated anyone that I would pick as a favourite over Cormier, whereas Cormier has thrashed 4 guys that have handed Noguiera a loss

I would not pick Noguiera at his best with his skillset to beat Cormier at his best at any time throughout his career so I don't think it can really be argued that Cormier has a better career
 
Axl' said:
Cro Cop, Barnett, Couture, Kharitonov, Werdum, Henderson, Coleman, Herring x3, Sylvia, Schilt, Rodriguez.
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Which one of those guys would Cormier not be considerable favourite over?
 
Zanmato said:
Which one of those guys would Cormier not be considerable favourite over?
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That's a dumb argument. The thread is about legacy, not what ifs. Minotauro was a top 3 heavyweight for about ten years. Never beat Fedor, but basically beat every other top contender of his era. He was cleaning out guys to the point they never even got the chance to fight Fedor because they couldn't get through Nog, so Nog basically ended up having a better resume than the Last Emperror himself.
 
Both lost twice to one opponent in Jones/Fedor, Nog dropped a poor decision to Hendo and a very close one to Barnett during his prime years but wins wise..

Nog - Herring x 3, Coleman, Crocop, Sergei, Werdum, Barnett, Sylvia, Randy, Hendo, Ricco, Semmy.

Cormier - Rumble x 2, Barnett, Bigfoot, Gus, Stipe, Anderson, Hendo, Mir

I think Nog has the edge there personally, more big wins and more of them against opponents in their primes, only really Randy and Herring the 3rd time could be argued as being declined and Nog himself was on the way down to.
 
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Axl' said:
That's a dumb argument. The thread is about legacy, not what ifs. Minotauro was a top 3 heavyweight for about ten years. Never beat Fedor, but basically beat every other top contender of his era. He was cleaning out guys to the point they never even got the chance to fight Fedor because they couldn't get through Nog, so Nog basically ended up having a better resume than the Last Emperror himself.
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There is no such thing as legacy. It's just idiots like us on the internet stating "[x fighter] was the best because they were at the top of their game when I cared about the sport the most"

Cormier has easily defeated guys that handed Noguiera uncompetitive losses, his skill set is such that he would be heavy favourite against him in a fight at any point throughout his career, has won more titles, defended his titles more times and had more success in his parent discipline outside of MMA as well

I'm a fan of Noguiera's fights but it's a serious case of rose-tinted spectacles to claim his career is any better than Cormier's (outside of simply having a higher volume of fights)


Axl' said:
He was cleaning out guys to the point they never even got the chance to fight Fedor because they couldn't get through Nog, so Nog basically ended up having a better resume than the Last Emperror himself.
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who would have fought Fedor before Nog beat them? Cro Cop, who did fight him in the end and Sergei.. hardly 'cleaning out'

it's not really like there was a long list of people just about to fight Fedor but Noguiera cock-blocked them... Sergei and Cro Cop who did eventually fight Fedor anyway. Werdum, Barnett were credible challengers also but neither had a run in Pride where they were up for a title shot either through their own losses to other guys as well as Noguiera or due to Fedor's inactivity through injury


Cormier's legacy will be finishing his fighting career probably with a bigger bank balance and with multiple opportunities to continue steady employment as a broadcaster etc, without permanent disfigurement and damage to his brain
 
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dabouv said:
He fought during a weaker era. He was pretty much done by 32 as an elite fighter. He is only a few years older per than "DC? Not is in the legends category but DC has had the better career. If he were to defend the Hwt title against legitimate contender, it makes his case stronger.
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At HW, there isn't really a weaker era than the one we're in.

DC's HW record isn't all that strong, and it's brightest light is Stipe - fireman king of one of the worst divisions in post-2000 MMA history.
 
dabouv said:
He fought during a weaker era. He was pretty much done by 32 as an elite fighter. He is only a few years older per than "DC? Not is in the legends category but DC has had the better career. If he were to defend the Hwt title against legitimate contender, it makes his case stronger.
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Weaker era!?

At Heavyweight!?

That is straight-up hilarious. Pride’s Heavyweight roster from ~2005 would run through the current UFC.
 
PrinceOfPain said:
At HW, there isn't really a weaker era than the one we're in.

DC's HW record isn't all that strong, and it's brightest light is Stipe - fireman king of one of the worst divisions in post-2000 MMA history.
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At least since the turn of the millennium anyway, just how weak it is has really been disguised by the presense of a lot of "names" who are shadows of their former selves, something that wasn't the case in the 00's.
 
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