Crime Ariana Grande Concert Terror Attack, v2: ISIS Claims Responsibility, Trump Responds

[dontsnitch]

Swear to God, CBC just brought up the IRA. I'm living in the matrix, confirmed.

 

[KONE]

Correct. Many of you should be very thankful to have been born in a free country.

Your edgy/angry gimmick is boring. You should put some of that effort into losing weight, so you wouldn't be such a fat fucking mess

 

[Grenz]

Fawlty said if some people here were born in Syria they would rape underage children and stone women

He's probably not entirely wrong.



Everybody likes to think that they'd keep all their virtuous qualities were they in a vastly different situation (like for example, growing up in an impoverished warzone that's being torn apart by totalitarian dictators and religious fanatics), but the facts seem to suggest otherwise.

 

[Islam Imamate]

In what way is The Troubles comparable to the current problem with radical Islam?

One was an internal conflict, the other largely influenced by outside forces.

One had a clear end goal with an avenue for conflict resolution, the other has a variety of reasons some being impossible to reconcile.

One had a body count of 3600 over a 30 year period, while that was tje opening salvo for the other.

One generally targeted direct players in a conflict, the other deliberately targets innocents.

One was localized to a great extent, the other is global.


That's just talking about current terrorism in the west. Once looked at in a global context there is absolutely no comparison between the IRA and ISIS. And that's only one, if the most prominent problem. The scope of islamic fuckery eclipses IRA by leaps and bounds. Local gro op vs the cartels kinda thing.

Its a reasonable comparison because we're comparing modern terrorist movements and in this case terrorists which operate in the UK by recruiting natives of the UK.

Sure the comparison isn't perfect I didn't bring up the comparison initially, I just thought it pretty hypocritical to say that the IRA situation is off limits as a basis for comparison but then draw a comparison to medieval conflicts as if they're relevant to 2017. When the other side does it you criticize them but when your side does you defend the politicization of history, its quite telling really.

A little fairness, if you will. I'm not deflecting anything. This thread is about the act of terrorism that took place yesterday where 20 people were killed, including children, so forgive me if I think a conversation about the IRA, a terrorist group that hasn't killed anyone in decades is not fitting here.

And medieval conflicts are relevant how exactly?

When we speak about Islam, it's not a deflection to trace the religion back to it's roots. You're not being fair here. In a thread about the violence done by the IRA, I would never, ever jump in and talk about Muslims, that's retarded, to put it plainly.

But sure, I can easily condemn the IRA, their ideology is tainted by their violence. But seriously, so what?

Is that so? I suppose then bringing up the legacy of things like colonialism is fair as well? Since, you know, the history of Islamic immigration to Europe and the instability in the Middle East is deeply rooted in colonialism. Ah but I'm sure if I did that I'd be dog piled by the mouthbreathers. So what we're seeing here is pretty plainly a double standard in argumentation that you're perfectly willing to accept and perpetuate.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Apparently he had a problem with people suggesting massive deportations as a response to the terrorist attack

Yeah crazy, what kind of weirdo has a problem with collective punishment and ethnic cleansing?

 

[Pwent]

He's probably not entirely wrong.



Everybody likes to think that they'd keep all their virtuous qualities were they in a vastly different situation (like for example, growing up in an impoverished warzone that's being torn apart by totalitarian dictators and religious fanatics), but the facts seem to suggest otherwise.

but peterson is not saying that this absolves nazis from their crimes and that we should've let them immigrate from berlin during the war, nor does he say that we should be considered guilty of nazi war crimes because we wouldve committed them if we were there

which are the arguments and accusations that fawlty was making

 

[dontsnitch]

He's probably not entirely wrong.



Everybody likes to think that they'd keep all their virtuous qualities were they in a vastly different situation (like for example, growing up in an impoverished warzone that's being torn apart by totalitarian dictators and religious fanatics), but the facts seem to suggest otherwise.

I generally agree there is truth to this, but it applies much more to something like the Nazis, as in, I'd be much more likely to agree with my president and countrymen when they conclude that Jews are bad for our nation and we should wage war on them. This is possible and even likely. On the other hand, suggesting that my lack of desire to rape children is purely geographical goes against the entire nature and nurture narrative. It basically says that nurture is the only thing that influences us. I reject this. Then again, I believe we do have free will. Basically, I'm not raping any kids. Take that to the bank.

 

[Pale Man In Black]

I see the usual apologist scumbags are here.

 

[steelcity77]

we are now going out of our way and travelling halfway around the world to pick up migrants and bring them back here .. this is utter madness .. Trump should've told the aus pm that HE did not make that deal and he's not honoring shit

 

[Pale Man In Black]

or rather not doing what needs to be done

We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.
What happened to Europe? Men used to be men, and could face the truth, no matter how ugly.

 

[ripskater]

we are now going out of our way and travelling halfway around the world to pick up migrants and bring them back here .. this is utter madness .. Trump should've told the aus pm that HE did not make that deal and he's not honoring shit

Yeah Trump needs to stop this from happening if he can.

 

[dontsnitch]

Its a reasonable comparison because we're comparing modern terrorist movements and in this case terrorists which operate in the UK by recruiting natives of the UK.

Sure the comparison isn't perfect I didn't bring up the comparison initially, I just thought it pretty hypocritical to say that the IRA situation is off limits as a basis for comparison but then draw a comparison to medieval conflicts as if they're relevant to 2017. When the other side does it you criticize them but when your side does you defend the politicization of history, its quite telling really.



And medieval conflicts are relevant how exactly?

Is that so? I suppose then bringing up the legacy of things like colonialism is fair as well? Since, you know, the history of Islamic immigration to Europe and the instability in the Middle East is deeply rooted in colonialism. Ah but I'm sure if I did that I'd be dog piled by the mouthbreathers. So what we're seeing here is pretty plainly a double standard in argumentation that you're perfectly willing to accept and perpetuate.

Nobody said the IRA is "off limits". It's just an obvious deflection in a thread about a terrorist act that killed children just yesterday from a group that has been perpetuating terrorism for over a thousand years. To deny this is simply dishonest.

I also never said that colonialism doesn't belong in this conversation. You're not being fair with me here.

 

[Pale Man In Black]

Yeah Trump needs to stop this from happening if he can.

Yes, he does.
Will he, though?

 

[KONE]

He's probably not entirely wrong.



Everybody likes to think that they'd keep all their virtuous qualities were they in a vastly different situation (like for example, growing up in an impoverished warzone that's being torn apart by totalitarian dictators and religious fanatics), but the facts seem to suggest otherwise.

Yeah, I don't think I would be raping underage boys if I was born in Syria. Nor would I feel some desire to rape children within a week if I went to Syria right now, like Fawlty suggested.

Yeah crazy, what kind of weirdo has a problem with collective punishment and ethnic cleansing?

It wasn't just that though, he was just angry in general pretty much. It came basically out of nowhere and was pretty bizarre.

 

[VivaRevolution]

He's probably not entirely wrong.



Everybody likes to think that they'd keep all their virtuous qualities were they in a vastly different situation (like for example, growing up in an impoverished warzone that's being torn apart by totalitarian dictators and religious fanatics), but the facts seem to suggest otherwise.

I think the better example would be this:



Without learned behavior, we would walk on all fours, have no language, and be half an evolutionary step above a wild monkey.

AKA, if no one taught us not to throw literal shit at each other, we would.

 

[Bald1]

Its a reasonable comparison because we're comparing modern terrorist movements and in this case terrorists which operate in the UK by recruiting natives of the UK.

Sure the comparison isn't perfect I didn't bring up the comparison initially, I just thought it pretty hypocritical to say that the IRA situation is off limits as a basis for comparison but then draw a comparison to medieval conflicts as if they're relevant to 2017. When the other side does it you criticize them but when your side does you defend the politicization of history, its quite telling really.

I legit don't get your meaning in how I politicize history. Maybe I'm missing something obvious.

I don't think there is any valid comparison to Islamic terrorism. No matter what timeline is examined. It's global, the membership is far more numerous than any other, it's indiscriminate, and it has claimed far more victims than any other. And the biggest one - there is no logical conclusion to a problem that stems from so many different demands.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Nobody said the IRA is "off limits". It's just an obvious deflection in a thread about a terrorist act that killed children just yesterday from a group that has been perpetuating terrorism for over a thousand years. To deny this is simply dishonest.

ISIS has been around for over a thousand years?

 

[faustian]

Holy shit how many generations of inbreeding does it take to produce a face like this

 

[Islam Imamate]

I legit don't get your meaning in how I politicize history. Maybe I'm missing something obvious.

I don't think there is any valid comparison to Islamic terrorism. No matter what timeline is examined. It's global, the membership is far more numerous than any other, it's indiscriminate, and it has claimed far more victims than any other. And the biggest one - there is no logical conclusion to a problem that stems from so many different demands.

I'm talking about @dontsnitch treatment of Islamic history as an unbroken chain of terrorism(a modern word which poorly grafts onto the past despite his partisan rhetoric). You object to the comparison with a terrorist group from the 90s but ignore the politicization of 14 centuries of history. Pretty clear double standard.

 

[dontsnitch]

ISIS has been around for over a thousand years?

Again, you're not arguing in good faith. Radical Islam has been around for over a thousand years.

What is it about this that bothers you so much? I'm not denying colonialism isn't a factor. I'm not denying there haven't been other terrorist groups. All I said is that bringing up the IRA in this thread is hilarious. If you disagree let's just agree to disagree...