Amir Khan talking crap about Conor

This thread turned into a trainwreck...as all Conor threads should
 
Rico said:
This thread turned into a trainwreck...as all Conor threads should
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Lemme try to bring it back to center: Wrestlers are tough to beat if on the ground same with BJJ, grapplers are tough if you dont understand leverage and balance and let them latch onto you, Boxers are tough if you stand in front of them and try to exchange. All of those guys are even more dangerous if they really know how to fight and bring more to the table than just being able to do one thing well,(Yoel Romero is a perfect example of that), he can punch, kick and super athletic for MMA standards, with his fast twitch power, so much that he doesn't need to wrestle sometimes). Nothing should be taken for granted in any fight against any top rank fighter in any discipline. Amir Khan vs Conor in MMA is an interesting conversation because I don't think it's such a one sided match-up.
 
nastyleft said:
Lemme try to bring it back to center: Wrestlers are tough to beat if on the ground same with BJJ, grapplers are tough if you dont understand leverage and balance and let them latch onto you, Boxers are tough if you stand in front of them and try to exchange. All of those guys are even more dangerous if they really know how to fight and bring more to the table than just being able to do one thing well,(Yoel Romero is a perfect example of that), he can punch, kick and super athletic for MMA standards, with his fast twitch power, so much that he doesn't need to wrestle sometimes). Nothing should be taken for granted in any fight against any top rank fighter in any discipline. Amir Khan vs Conor in MMA is an interesting conversation because I don't think it's such a one sided match-up.
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See that's where I'm gonna completely disagree. Wrestlers start on the feet and score in the their sport by taking their opponent to the ground. That's literally what the sport is. Taking someone from standing to the ground then controlling them there against their will.

The reason that wrestlers have the best base for MMA is because they control WHERE the fight takes place more than any other facet by a LONG shot. It's not because they're uber tough (though the work ethic from it lends itself). I'm sorry, no amount of athleticism is gonna stop a high level wrestler from taking you down... Except wrestling defense, which is a skill learned by get this...wrestling.

I agree the matchup is interesting but it's because Canor is egotistical enough to stand methinks. He's shown halfway decent grappling that would be effective against any novice grappler. And Amir is a novice grappler. I'd fucking love to see him starch Conor, though, but we've seen Conor panic wrestle when getting rocked by Diaz pillow fists. That sloppy TD he shot in a haze would have Amir on his back. I'd imagine he might put Conor out before that point but who knows.
 
Rico said:
You mentioned him getting pieced up by Diaz. I was just bringing up the fact that his weirdo fans attributed it to him being gassed (which is hilarious considering he's most likely gonna fight a 12rd soon). Maybe I should have elaborated better but I thought it was pretty clear I wasn't insinuating you were one of them.

That's quite the leap and hyper defensive tbh. Just because I quoted you doesn't mean what I said was about you. It was about your post. You already know that, though. Seems like you just wanted to make a snide remark about me being a MMA coach lmao.
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That's quite a leap, I've made no snide remarks about you being an mma coach, ask @RR Or @Sinister i have the utmost respect for people working in the business, let's just chalk this down to a misunderstanding.
 
Rico said:
See that's where I'm gonna completely disagree. Wrestlers start on the feet and score in the their sport by taking their opponent to the ground. That's literally what the sport is. Taking someone from standing to the ground then controlling them there against their will.

The reason that wrestlers have the best base for MMA is because they control WHERE the fight takes place more than any other facet by a LONG shot. It's not because they're uber tough (though the work ethic from it lends itself). I'm sorry, no amount of athleticism is gonna stop a high level wrestler from taking you down... Except wrestling defense, which is a skill learned by...wrestling.

I agree the matchup is interesting but it's because Canor is egotistical enough to stand methinks. He's shown halfway decent grappling that would be effective against any novice grappler. And Amir is a novice grappler. I'd fucking love to see him starch Conor, though, but we've seen Conor panic wrestle when getting rocked by Diaz pillow fists. That sloppy TD he shot in a haze would have Amir on his back.
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Well if you've never had to keep a guy off your legs and didnt understand balance and leverage, sure Khan would've been on his back, I have no doubt.
I see your point, all I've been making the point is that sprawling isnt some hidden secret thats super hard to learn. Especially if a person already had some experience in how to not let the other guy gain a physical advantage on you when he engages you. There are other sports like Rugby or American Football where that is an inherent aspect of being able to play the game. TD defense becomes a bit easier to pick up quickly, because the muscle memory already understands getting your feet behind you, low shoulders drop the hips and drive. Jus sayin'.
 
nastyleft said:
Well if you've never had to keep a guy off your legs and didnt understand balance and leverage, sure Khan would've been on his back, I have no doubt.
I see your point, all I've been making the point is that sprawling isnt some hidden secret thats super hard to learn. Especially if a person already had some experience in how to not let the other guy gain a physical advantage on you when he engages you. There are other sports like Rugby or American Football where that is an inherent aspect of being able to play the game. TD defense becomes a bit easier to pick up quickly, because the muscle memory already understands getting your feet behind you, low shoulders drop the hips and drive. Jus sayin'.
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And just sprawling doesn't work on guys that actually can wrestle (which most fighters at the UFC level in 2017 can in an MMA context). Real wrestlers know how to chain wrestle and ye olde 2001 pancake sprawl isn't gonna cut it. That's all I'm saying.
 
Rico said:
And just sprawling doesn't work on guys that actually can wrestle (which most fighters at the UFC level in 2017 can in an MMA context). Real wrestlers know how to chain wrestle and ye olde 2001 pancake sprawl isn't gonna cut it. That's all I'm saying.
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<{yearp}>
 
He thinks nobody remembers...
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Rico said:
Boxing is part of mma, mma is not part of boxing.

Conor would grapple rape Amir if he chose to do so but would most likely get slept trying to stand and bang.

Edit: Conor's striking setups are relatively simple (but highly effective on overhand spamming MMA fighters who simply don't have the time to devote to just standup). On the front foot (think of Mendes, Siver, Brandao finishes here), he's pressuring you to the cage and banking on you circling away from his left hand and using the cage to cut off your escape route so he can load up on his cross (which mechanically in this situation the punch is flawed but his reach/timing/accuracy/power make up for it). On the backfoot (Aldo and Alvarez), he's goading you into throwing a lead right hand from way out of range so he can inside slip/pull and come over the shoulder as your overextending yourself trying to take his head off from way too far out. Those little oblique kicks (which everyone forgets happened right before the Aldo KO), the spinning back kicks etc are all meant to get his opponent think they have to commit to covering distance from farther out with their right hand so he can slip/pull and counter. There's a little more to the Aldo KO (he recognized he was too far out to land the lead right, abandoned it and switched to a left hook mid combo but he just let his right hand drop when he did it so he basically ended up supermanning his face into the left hand).

This is just a pretty simple breakdown of what he does but my whole point here is once a elite level boxer adjusts to the added kicking range (which won't take long), he's not gonna have much success with being a one handed boxer. As I said, he could rape Amir on the ground but that's a while diff story.
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Conors not a grappler and Khans speed would overwhelm him.
 
nastyleft said:
Played D1 football as a defensive back at a Pac12 school, then a little bit after... Got back into fight training since career was done, fucked around a bit until getting a solid job.
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So it sounds like you're still in your early 30s. Any of that freak athleticism left?
 
nastyleft said:
No Im convinced, this conversation wasn't about if Khan could take on a wrestler on the ground, its about if he could be effective by not getting taken down, especially by a guy that prefers to stand anyways, and possibly win.
I wrestled a guy in a tournament in HS the first time i tried wrestling. Somehow made it to the finals and got my ass dragged around the mat by a dude that had been wrestling since he was a toddler. Never forgot that experience......And I thought I was tough, got my ass waxed. But again this isnt a conversation about wrestlers being legit badasses, its about if a guy that can move could keep from getting caught-up in a takedown. Which i think can happen.
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Connor has been training wrestling with elite coaches and partners for years at this point. Even though he is not a natural grappler he would still probably easily manage to get somebody his size to the ground with 0 wrestimg experience. Especially when their whole style, stance, and muscle memory is Taylor made to be taken down.
 
Sunfish said:
That's quite a leap, I've made no snide remarks about you being an mma coach, ask @RR Or @Sinister i have the utmost respect for people working in the business, let's just chalk this down to a misunderstanding.
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I was just ribbing you a bit bud.
 
Sunfish said:
I apologise.
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I wish Sin still posted here. Guy has an insane level of understanding of the details of boxing. I'll just stalk him in the standup forum in the meantime but that kind of insight is invaluable in this forum.
 
Rico said:
I wish Sin still posted here. Guy has an insane level of understanding of the details of boxing. I'll just stalk him in the standup forum in the meantime but that kind of insight is invaluable in this forum.
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What do you want to ask him and I'll do it?
 
I agree that a boxer would stand no chance on the ground but i think the gulf in skill with respect to foot work is being ignored (maintaing good balance, controlling range, moving off the backfoot).

I'd really only give a boxer with good to great feet any shot in an MMA fight.

Against Amir: I think McGregor would struggle to cut off the octogan, muchless get his hands on or take him down.
 
Sunfish said:
What do you want to ask him and I'll do it?
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Oh nothing in particular. I'd PM him if I had any specific questions. Just speaking generally that I wished he posted in this forum more.
 
I did stumble across this.



Yes I know they're goofing around/there's a size difference/guy has no idea what to do amongst other things and I have no idea who the "pro" is and don't feel like researching but it highlights how easy it would be for Canor to shoot a TD. It's literally the first thing he does after flinging out a kick or two. Good evasive boxing footwork is only gonna get you so far. Canor could easily feint a 1>2>level change for a TD. Not to mention the added dimension the threat of a TD adds to striking. The Mayweather strategy would only keep you afoot for so long. At some point he'd have to engage.

If amir CAN keep it on the feet, whether from miraculously learning tdd or Conor choosing to keep it there, then he starches Conor at some point. You'll get no argument from me there.
 
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