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mma is a constant game of evolution between the wrestlers and the strikers with both side always evolving, gotta love it
Someone like a prime Anderson was ko’ing wrestlers when they were trying to get takedowns.mma is a constant game of evolution between the wrestlers and the strikers with both side always evolving, gotta love it
I never said no rules, I said rules/judging/ref favor wrestlers.
Takedowns now are something that can, apparently, steal a round if timed just right. Like somehow a TD with no follow up but able to stay on top can cancel out everything else the other fighter did in a 10-9 round. And even the ufc shills are promoting TD's like they're some kind of grand phenomena.
Say what you want about Pride but a fighter attempting to finish the fight is much more deserving of points as opposed to someone trying to 'stay in dominant position' to win on points.
Wrestling, in and of itself, is not a 'finish the fight' base. It's a win on points base which is fine in wrestling, but wrestling is not a great spectator sport unless you talk to wrestlers.
LOL, wrestling is not a great spectator sport even if you do talk to wrestlers. I was a D-1 wrestler, though not a very good one. I do not recall particularly enjoying watching a dual meet or tournament over my years, aside from watching certain wrestlers compete. I loved competing though.
If you want to bitch about the way fights are scored, that is a legitimate gripe. As far as a takedown 'stealing' a round- it would have to be a pretty close round even with todays scoring. If a wrestler has been getting pieced up for 4 minutes and gets a TD with a minute to go, he will probably not win that round, even today. But if it's a close round, or if he is just a bit behind, he might just get the round scored in his favor. That's not stealing though, that's winning.
Where I think judges could be better at scoring is once a TD takes place. Some wrestlers that are good at getting TD's, but don't yet have great positional control or GNP, end up winning rounds even though they absorbed more damage or took more blows than they inflicted once they were on top. But those things don't typically occur at the highest levels.
What can not be debated though is the effectiveness of wrestling and the superior role it plays in determining outcomes in fights. In the ring, cage or otherwise. Elite wrestlers have disproportionately (though not exclusively) held the titles and elite rankings for a long, long time. Regardless of whatever rule changes have taken place. And the bottom line is elite wrestlers on average learn the other aspects of the MMA game faster and better than fighters from other disciplines learn elite wrestling.
In short, get used to them. As long as they are better at doing what they want to you than you are at doing what you want to them, they aren't going anywhere.
Someone like a prime Anderson was ko’ing wrestlers when they were trying to get takedowns.
When he started clowning and not taking wrestlers serous onnthe feet he started getting in trouble.
- No, when you run into punches all the time you're not getting any points. You get credit when the opponent constantly backs off and you chase him down. Additionally and more importantly, both fighters have total control over their body and space. Not when you're on the ground.
- You can't cut off in the cage. It's simply impossibly. The corners are too wide.
- Nobody punches with the intention to cut and to get the advantage of having an opponent who can't see through all the blood. it's much much harder to do to. Cutting with elbows is easy, very easy. Wrestlers constantly do. Less now but they still do.
- Stalling the fight without having control over your opponent is fine. What's the problem? I mean you should get penalized but your opponent can just take advantage of your inactivity. Not when a wrestler is lying on top of you.
Not allowing knees/kicks to the head drastically changes ground dynamics. While it would mean grounded fighters would take more damage. It would also make missing on a takedown MUCH more costly. A good sprawl followed by knees to the head ends a fight. It would make fighters more reluctant to shoot for takedowns and lead to more standup.How do ufc rules favor wrestlers? Please tell me what “rules” favour wrestlers?
You mean "grappler"...not wrestler. And you can emphasize what can't be debated all you want but it can and a great counter made to the OP about WRESTLING being the best base.LOL, wrestling is not a great spectator sport even if you do talk to wrestlers. I was a D-1 wrestler, though not a very good one. I do not recall particularly enjoying watching a dual meet or tournament over my years, aside from watching certain wrestlers compete. I loved competing though.
If you want to bitch about the way fights are scored, that is a legitimate gripe. As far as a takedown 'stealing' a round- it would have to be a pretty close round even with todays scoring. If a wrestler has been getting pieced up for 4 minutes and gets a TD with a minute to go, he will probably not win that round, even today. But if it's a close round, or if he is just a bit behind, he might just get the round scored in his favor. That's not stealing though, that's winning.
Where I think judges could be better at scoring is once a TD takes place. Some wrestlers that are good at getting TD's, but don't yet have great positional control or GNP, end up winning rounds even though they absorbed more damage or took more blows than they inflicted once they were on top. But those things don't typically occur at the highest levels.
What can not be debated though is the effectiveness of wrestling and the superior role it plays in determining outcomes in fights. In the ring, cage or otherwise. Elite wrestlers have disproportionately (though not exclusively) held the titles and elite rankings for a long, long time. Regardless of whatever rule changes have taken place. And the bottom line is elite wrestlers on average learn the other aspects of the MMA game faster and better than fighters from other disciplines learn elite wrestling.
In short, get used to them. As long as they are better at doing what they want to you than you are at doing what you want to them, they aren't going anywhere.
Wrestling is good to hold your opponent down and that's it.
But doing that for 15 minutes you will most likely get a gift win from the judges.
Personally I would call that avoiding the fight, not dominating it.
If we talk about how wrestlers finish fights then we're not talking about wrestling anymore, now are we ?
Wrestlers can finish fights because they trained GnP and BJJ submissions, wich like I said is not wrestling.
So wrestling by itself is not dominant, but just 1 part of MMA judges just happen to like, nothing more.
Stand ups have been super frequent latelywtf are you from the year 2000? The cage is universally known for help getting up when on the bottom, wrestlers are stood up within 10 secs if they arent advancing after takedowns, and they now have phones where you can go on the internet and learn things "smart phones. Ufc rules are 100 percent geared towards strikers.
After 25+ years, it is painfully apparent that fighters with a wrestling background have continued to dominate this sport. Who wouldve ever thought that wrestling which was never really considered a martial art, would be the absolute BEST background a fighter can have in any mma discipline.
Maybe in another 25 years, Fighters will develop a style that will be a nightmare for ALL fighters who excel at wrestling.
You mean "grappler"...not wrestler. And you can emphasize what can't be debated all you want but it can and a great counter made to the OP about WRESTLING being the best base.
I knew you had history of wrestling by your obvious bias.
This.what are u talking about??? although gsp didnt have a wrestling background, one can argue he was the BEST wrestler in the history of the ufc! He dominated wrestlers with his wrestling... it was truly amazing! GSP won the majority of his fights by WRESTLING!!!! WAKE UP!
Its not that i just figured it out, its more of a shocking realization that over 20 years and here we are. wrestlers are still dominant.
The only reason wrestlers dominate UFC is because of the UFC rules. They heavily favour wrestlers. The cage heavily favours wrestlers as well.
Well Khabib's background is in combat Sambo and he's beaten many wrestlers as did FedorAfter 25+ years, it is painfully apparent that fighters with a wrestling background have continued to dominate this sport. Who wouldve ever thought that wrestling which was never really considered a martial art, would be the absolute BEST background a fighter can have in any mma discipline.
Maybe in another 25 years, Fighters will develop a style that will be a nightmare for ALL fighters who excel at wrestling.
what are u talking about??? although gsp didnt have a wrestling background, one can argue he was the BEST wrestler in the history of the ufc! He dominated wrestlers with his wrestling... it was truly amazing! GSP won the majority of his fights by WRESTLING!!!! WAKE UP!
GSP himself credits that to his karate background, not his wrestling. Its because of his footwork, he's able to get in and out in a way that allows him to avoid takedowns and secure them. He said as much on Rogan's podcast and I remember Sherk years ago saying it was GSP's footwork that most impressed him.And he is one of the best MMA wrestlers himself.
If you look at most wrestlers, their takedown average is actually low because they often have to chain wrestle to get the guy to the ground. But GSP is different, he has a very high rate of success especially given how often he attempts takedowns and that's because of his unique skill set, coming form karate, that guys with a wrestling background don't have."That's what I use for my takedown, the shoot, that people see, it's zero wrestling. It has nothing to do with my wrestling. My wrestling is once I get that leg, I'll finish the takedown. But how I get in and out is because of karate. People are like, ‘no way, Karate, no.' And I'm like, 'yes.' Karate allows me to cut the distance and take the people down. I have a very good single, a very good double and very good penetration. It's because of my leg, the way I do it, and the timing is because of my karate. I wrestle, too, but my karate is primary. Before I started wrestling, I was a karate guy pure."
Not shocking at all. Once they learned submission defense, anyone without takedown defense was going to get mauled by these guys.