50-0: The Best Ever

[Seano]

Zab made Floyd support himself on the floor. That's a knockdown.\

Not according to the record books.

 

[10000 Days]

Floyd made a career of making people dislike him. There are people who vote that Pac beat him too.

Yep. Also, putting Pac over Floyd as '00's Fighter of the Decade is beyond me.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Floyd made a career of making people dislike him. There are people who vote that Pac beat him too.

Except the BWAA goes by accomplishments and how dominant a fighter was, not by who is/isn't liked by the public. Why is Floyd not listed but RJJ (90's) and Pac (2000's) are? An American association consisting of that many full members decided to cast their votes for a Filipino guy instead of Floyd? That makes sense.

Floyd was apparently "liked" enough to be voted in to win a total of 6 ESPY Awards. There went your argument. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_Fighter_ESPY_Award

 

[Oscaraps]

Not according to the record books.

That was a knockdown ref didn't call it. Didn't he get knocked during the HernandeZ bout after some body punches ? Might be wrong on that one but I remember there was a knockdown in that fight

 

[Seano]

Except the BWAA goes by accomplishments and how dominant a fighter was, not by who is/isn't liked by the public. Why is Floyd not listed but RJJ (90's) and Pac (2000's) are? An American association consisting of that many full members decided to cast their votes for a Filipino guy instead of Floyd? That makes sense.

Floyd was apparently "liked" enough to be voted in to win a total of 6 ESPY Awards. There went your argument. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_Fighter_ESPY_Award

You believe Roy has a deeper resume than Floyd?

 

[Oscaraps]

That was a knockdown ref didn't call it. Didn't he get knocked during the HernandeZ bout after some body punches ? Might be wrong on that one but I remember there was a knockdown in that fight

 

[Seano]

That was a knockdown ref didn't call it. Didn't he get knocked during the HernandeZ bout after some body punches ? Might be wrong on that one but I remember there was a knockdown in that fight

Somewhere in this thread, I believe I specified "official" KDs. The point still stands. Whitaker got put on his ass more often than Floyd did.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

You believe Roy has a deeper resume than Floyd?

Roy was more dominant and proved his worth during that decade. Did you forget how Floyd ever got his P4P #1 spot in the first place? It isn't like he earned it.

 

[Seano]

Roy was more dominant and proved his worth during that decade. Did you forget how Floyd ever got his P4P #1 spot in the first place? It isn't like he earned it.

Oh, I see. I didn't realize you were splitting up his career like that. So, Roy is greater if you disqualify 2/3 of Floyd's resume? Legit ranking system, obviously.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Oh, I see. I didn't realize you were splitting up his career like that. So, Roy is greater if you disqualify 2/3 of Floyd's resume? Legit ranking system, obviously.

That's how the BWAA determines their "Fighter of the Decade" since the 90's, you know, by actually going by every 10 year span as a decade. Crazy thought.

 

[Seano]

That's how the BWAA determines their "Fighter of the Decade" since the 90's, you know, by actually going by every 10 year span as a decade. Crazy thought.

Floyds best decade was not the 90s and no one has claimed it was. We're talking all time rankings. Not decade by decade. You view a fighter's career as a whole, not just the parts where he did well.

Your implication is that roy was a greater fighter all time because he did more in the 90s than Floyd did. Floyds biggest fights weren't even in that decade.

And also, explain to me how Lomachenko is a P4Per when Floyd supposedly didn't earn his spot.

this is what i always find myself saying in these Floyd all time conversations. Suddenly when asked to apply the same criticisms to their favorites, the conversation seems to fizzle out. Crawford is a P4Per because he beat who exactly? Lomackenko ranks high for beating Marriaga and Martinez? So explain to me why Floyd shouldn't have ranked.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Floyds best decade was not the 90s and no one has claimed it was. We're talking all time rankings. Not decade by decade. You view a fighter's career as a whole, not just the parts where he did well.

Your implication is that roy was a greater fighter all time because he did more in the 90s than Floyd did. Floyds biggest fights weren't even in that decade.

And also, explain to me how Lomachenko is a P4Per when Floyd supposedly didn't earn his spot.

this is what i always find myself saying in these Floyd all time conversations. Suddenly when asked to apply the same criticisms to their favorites, the conversation seems to fizzle out. Crawford is a P4Per because he beat who exactly? Lomackenko ranks high for beating Marriaga and Martinez? So explain to me why Floyd shouldn't have ranked.

I said the BWAA started giving that award in 1990. Obviously, Floyd hadn't been a pro long enough to have had his best decade during that span. Decade by decade matters because it's a large chunk of a fighter's accomplishments. It's debatable that Floyd is even the greatest of his generation, much less of all time. You're attempting to deflect as usual because you have no counterargument. Lomachenko isn't voted P4P #1 by The Ring, the TBRB, ESPN or by BoxRec's computerized ranking system. He's had 10 pro fights. Floyd inherited his spot after a certain fighter lost his official P4P #1 spot. It fell into his lap. You never knew this apparently.

 

[Seano]

I said the BWAA started giving that award in 1990. Obviously, Floyd hadn't been a pro long enough to have had his best decade during that span. Decade by decade matters because it's a large chunk of a fighter's accomplishments. It's debatable that Floyd is even the greatest of his generation, much less of all time. You're attempting to deflect as usual because you have no counterargument. Lomachenko isn't voted P4P #1 by The Ring, the TBRB, ESPN or by BoxRec's computerized ranking system. He's had 10 pro fights. Floyd inherited his spot after a certain fighter lost his official P4P #1 spot. It fell into his lap. You never knew this apparently.

You tried to stack the deck by making comparisons that weren't fair.

It doesn't matter how floyd earned his spot. What you said happens all the time. Is andre Ward not a legitimate P4Per because Gonzalez lost? He maintained his spot for well over a decade.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

You tried to stack the deck by making comparisons that weren't fair.

It doesn't matter how floyd earned his spot. What you said happens all the time. Is andre Ward not a legitimate P4Per because Gonzalez lost? He maintained his spot for well over a decade.

Floyd did not "maintain" his P4P #1 spot for well over a decade. I could show you The Ring's ratings directly but BoxRec's recollection of that spot, by year, will do just fine

http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/The_Ring_Magazine's_Annual_Ratings:_Pound_For_Pound--2000s

http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/The_Ring_Magazine's_Annual_Ratings:_Pound_For_Pound--2010s

 

[chiefwiggum]

Leonard took the Duran fight when Duran was at an absolute beast. No jokes there. He was hungry and in peak form. Credit to Leonard for taking such a fight that could make people look down in him today in Sherdog forums. Mayweather didn't fight certain guys in their primes. Pacquiao, for instance, was 5-6 years too late, and when he did, well, we saw what happened - a one sided but a clutch and hold snore-fest. Still a win, sure, no argument, but people can criticize those circumstances as/more easily than Leonard who fought at guy at his best, and then won in dominant fashion in the rematch.

Ezzard Charles is being seriously underappreciated here. I will say that his LHW run gets underappreciated. Different afflictions, sure, but Charles was really remarkably skilled. If you watch him, you'll see that a lot of what he does, bigger guys don't normally do. I'm not necessarily arguing with you here, but I'm more coming to his defense. He fought in one of the best eras of boxing where the gyms were packed, the trainers knew so much, and even average fighters then were actually really good and would probably be upper crust today. No, that's not because I'm smitten by black and white footage, that's just the facts. More minds, people, infrastructure invested in something, the more talent you'll see.

The sport was not pro wrestling, and ignoring guys like Gans and Langford is just a disservice born out of ignorance. Having close fights is not a red flag, it's indicative of the times. Nobody boxes today, thus, the talent pool is not as deep.

No one is saying that Floyd isn't a really good fighter, because I agree that he is, but you are riding on him hard here. Somewhere in the low end of the top 15-20 there could be a case made.

When you are fighting guys that are at their best, and you lose to them, you shouldn't be penalized for that. You should be appreciated for reaching for greatness. Ray Robinson had more than a few losses, but he's better than Floyd. He did more. He went from WW to LHW and fought anybody and there are very few fighters that have made a successful move from WW to MW (and that's due to the quality of the opposition - SRR was just special. A guy fighting a surging, dangerous fighter, at his absolute best shouldn't be penalized for losing. If that fighters waits 6 years and then fights him and beats him, it's an admission of his own fear and insecurities about fighting that fighter.

Sometimes you make some good observations, but you are coming on too strong here in your Mayweather love and not being as objective as you ought to be (which can be hard, I'm sure).

Ok are you basing srr greatness on what you've seen on tape or what old men have said?

Because the tapes I've seen of him shows he's not the greatest boxer ever.
If you add in tall tales and lore but I judge off of the tapes I can see.

 

[Burning Hammer]

Crazy how the nearest Floyd got to getting knocked down was him getting hit and losing his balance a little. You can call it a knockdown but floyd was never in any danger and it was more of a balance thing than anything.

It's a knockdown, by rule, and it wasn't called. That's bullshit it wasn't called. He ended up winning the damn fight anyways. It's just ridiculous to say things like "never got knocked down.

Ok are you basing srr greatness on what you've seen on tape or what old men have said?

Because the tapes I've seen of him shows he's not the greatest boxer ever.
If you add in tall tales and lore but I judge off of the tapes I can see.

Go hit the gym, take a shower, and get a clue. Watch those tapes again he was an absolute monster. Hist timing, his speed, his set ups, his movement, all are insane. He had 1 punch knockout power, power combinations, his downside was he could get too aggressive. That's it.

 

[GoodAssCheese]

Failing? What are you 12? Lol , is it not true that Castillo hit him plenty of times ? he most definately outboxed him in the fight ,have you watched the fight?

Yes. But he lost. You're still mad. Get over it.

 

[Sunfish]

Yep. Also, putting Pac over Floyd as '00's Fighter of the Decade is beyond me.

SRL is better than Duran.
SRR is better than Jake Lamotta
Tyson is better than Kevin McBride
Lewis is better than Rahman

Do you realise that one win over someone doesn't make them better.

 

[10000 Days]

SRL is better than Duran.
SRR is better than Jake Lamotta
Tyson is better than Kevin McBride
Lewis is better than Rahman

Do you realise that one win over someone doesn't make them better.

Did I say that Floyd beating Pac in 2015 is the reason why Floyd should've been Fighter of the decade 2000-09 over Pac?

Do you realize that I don't judge careers with one win over someone?

 

[Sunfish]

Did I say that Floyd beating Pac in 2015 is the reason why Floyd should've been Fighter of the decade 2000-09 over Pac?

Do you realize that I don't judge careers with one win over someone?

Do you understand what a debate on a forum is.