Yuri Foreman

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MeBig

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I don't wanna say that this guy sucks because it's obvious that he has some serious skill. The guy just doesn't seem to have any aggression whatsoever...I missed his fight with Roman last week but I've seen him fight Tsurkan and Thompson and he looked like a little more pressure would make him bounce and jump right out of the ring. Then his fight with McCrary it seemed like he held off at times when it was pretty obvious he could easily bounce some shots off Donny's dome. Now fightnews is quoting him and his people saying they want a title shot this year? wtf? Anyway I don't know what to make of this guy so I brought it here.
 
Yuri Foreman is an abomination. He gets creamed by Sergei.
 
Foreman is a smart boxer who has gotten a lot further than anyone ever thought he would. Sure he isn't the most exciting guy, but he's a decent draw and I for one and pulling for him to be the first Jewish Champ in years.
 
Any fighter claimining to be Jewish has your full support. Always has. I don't get it, blind support based around race/religion.

Not at all.
 
That's always been your two standpoints though. :D

I'm not one to compliment technique while overlooking being a boring ass fighter. Yuri has skills, and I'll probably always be rooting against him.
 
Not only that, *I'M* Jewish and I just don't get it at all. I can get liking a figher for who they are and what they bring. But for what book they model their lives after? Shit.

Foreman stinks.
 
I'm Jewish (well, really agnostic but Jewish culturally speaking) and I don't care for the Yuri Foreman's, Dmitry Salita's and Roman Greenberg's of today. I thought most (but not all) of the blind fervor (stars of david, stereotyping/fight hyping based on differences in the papers, etc.) based on an ethnicity/religion/etc. died in 40s or 50s. Ah well.
 
I'm agnostic as well, mate. German Jew/Portugese by birth.

On the point you make, I completely agree. It's a dark ages concept, which thrives on division, IMO.
 
Tam-Tam said:
Any fighter claimining to be Jewish has your full support. Always has. I don't get it, blind support based around race/religion.

Not at all.
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If a guy is Jewish or is from my hometown. So while Boston doesn't have any boxers to speak of, New England does, therefore I gotta also support Chad Dawson, Matt Godfrey and Joe Mesi. In all sports one naturally roots for the hometown team so to me that also means paying extra interest in the top jewish boxers as well.
 
I can understand hometown due to the association with a local athlete as being one of your local boys (and for team sports because they represent the best players that your city/region can assemble to contest against the other cities/regions), but ethnicity/religion-based rooting always seemed, to me, to be an outgrowth of the "Us vs. Them" mentality which reflected the opinions of the society at the time (for example, in the early 1900s there were Irish-Italian, Irish-Jewish, Italian-Jewish, Black-White, etc. feuds which often had the papers pointing out the stereotypical advantages and disadvantages of the fighter's ethnicity to hype it up as being 'something special' beyond two guys going at in the ring for honor, respect and the 'W').

For example, I wouldn't say Benny Leonard was the greatest Jewish Boxer of all time, but I would say that he was the second best Lightweight (after Roberto Duran) of all-time who happened to be Jewish. His cultural/religious status really means little in the ring and beyond the "Us vs. Them" mentality (which did hold back numerous fighters, primarily Blacks from getting their fair chance back in the day), I can't really see why it should become a method to identify with someone besides saying "Heh, that awesome slugger that I love to watch is also Irish-American (or whatever), cool."
 
hes studying to be a rabbi now. boxing, hitting people and hurting them is slightly at odds with this. In an NY Times interview he says he explained to his rabbi that he is trying to move and outpoint his opponents, not hurt them.

the article in the NY Times is from last week I think. Not much more than a year and a half ago Yuri was settling down on his punches and really developing. In the past year hes reverted to an amateur style and this may be why
 
ThirdPartyView said:
I'm Jewish (well, really agnostic but Jewish culturally speaking) and I don't care for the Yuri Foreman's, Dmitry Salita's and Roman Greenberg's of today. I thought most (but not all) of the blind fervor (stars of david, stereotyping/fight hyping based on differences in the papers, etc.) based on an ethnicity/religion/etc. died in 40s or 50s. Ah well.
Click to expand...

have you watched a barrera fight? or any other mexican fighter for that matter. or Cotto and Tito with their Puerto Rican fans? Gatti and the NJ italian fans that showed up to all of his fights, etc etc. why would it be any different for jews?
 
brother muzone said:
have you watched a barrera fight? or any other mexican fighter for that matter. or Cotto and Tito with their Puerto Rican fans? Gatti and the NJ italian fans that showed up to all of his fights, etc etc. why would it be any different for jews?
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People still have Irish vs. Jew taunts at fights today? Or Italian vs. Irish? Or so on? I don't think so. Sure, there is favoritism by Mexican fans for the Mexican guy over the Filipino (just like most New Yorkers root for a New York team over, say, a Boston team) but most of the "Us vs. Them" stuff regarding the dehumanizing of 'that other culture' that was predominant up until the 50s or thereabouts isn't present. There may be a 'home town boy' atmosphere for Cotto, but I don't think most Puerto Rico fans today are trying to throw venom at a Mexican opponent that he faces 'just cause'.
 
ThirdPartyView said:
People still have Irish vs. Jew taunts at fights today? Or Italian vs. Irish? Or so on? I don't think so. Sure, there is favoritism by Mexican fans for the Mexican guy over the Filipino (just like most New Yorkers root for a New York team over, say, a Boston team) but most of the "Us vs. Them" stuff regarding the dehumanizing of 'that other culture' that was predominant up until the 50s or thereabouts isn't present. There may be a 'home town boy' atmosphere for Cotto, but I don't think most Puerto Rico fans today are trying to throw venom at a Mexican opponent that he faces 'just cause'.
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I agree it doesnt have the same venom in it, but the nationalism is still there. But today the sport is really followed by such die hard fans, I think the fans respect the sport and the fighters almost all the time, even when its a heated rivalry like Mexican against PR fighters.

Cotto and to a larger extent Trinidads fights were damn near cultural events. I dont know if youve even been to the Garden when they fight, but its not a rooting for the hometown guy type of vibe. its nationalism, cultural identity. They just arent hateful about it.

Even Fretias fighting in Connecticut at the casinos drew a large brazilian fan base that was all about the flag, the music, soccer songs etc
 
ThirdPartyView said:
People still have Irish vs. Jew taunts at fights today? Or Italian vs. Irish? Or so on? I don't think so. Sure, there is favoritism by Mexican fans for the Mexican guy over the Filipino (just like most New Yorkers root for a New York team over, say, a Boston team) but most of the "Us vs. Them" stuff regarding the dehumanizing of 'that other culture' that was predominant up until the 50s or thereabouts isn't present. There may be a 'home town boy' atmosphere for Cotto, but I don't think most Puerto Rico fans today are trying to throw venom at a Mexican opponent that he faces 'just cause'.
Click to expand...

Nobody is saying that cheering for a fighter of a certain ethnicity/origin means denigrating the opposition.

Just as Cotto gives Puerto Rican fight fans something to be proud of, just as Hatton does for Brits, etc etc etc, so too do Jewish boxers for Jews. I don't like Yuri Foreman's style at all (or Anthony Thompson's) but I still generally cheer for them because there is such a paucity of Jewish fighters nowadays.
 
Im a jew. If I only had interest in rooting for jews, or took any vested interest in rooting against other nationalities, Id agree thats called being an ass. But I root for fighters and athletes of all backgrounds. But when a jewish athlete comes along, its generally my gut reaction to root for them. Igor Olshansky is one of the strongest players in the NFL, I found out hes a jew, Im a fan now. I couldnt care less if someone has a problem with that.

Its a natural instinct to root for athletes that come from a similar background as you. or maybe similar life stories, experiences etc. just how it is, sometimes its as basic as family background.
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/03/s...4400&en=8bea7c1494cd0b96&ei=5087 &oref=slogin

"Rabbi Joseph Potasnik, executive vice president of the New York Board of Rabbis, said Jewish principles would seem to put Foreman’s professional career at odds with his religious education. It is forbidden, the rabbi said, to injure yourself or another person. Rabbinic law also asks individuals to avoid situations of potential danger.

Foreman said his goal was not to injure himself or his opponent, but to win by outscoring competitors"


Id guess this is why he reverted back to an amateur style of boxing.
 
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