Television X-MEN '97 (Leaked Season 2 Trailer, post #826)

[StoneColdSteveAustin]

It's a good start that you're admitting that you're wrong and backing out of the discussion but do you at least have a comment on the blatant woke replacement/rewriting of established characters mentioned?

Black female Iron Man
Asian Hulk
Muslim Miss Marvel
Black/Latino Spider-Man
Female Captain America

Also: female Thor, and the fact that Iceman was a complete womaniser for most of the history of the comics and a couple of years back they decided... oh yeah, now he's gay

yes. Not one of those characters replaced anyone.


Lmfao. There that was easy.


I’d like to mention that isn’t a female captain America. That isnt a Muslim captain marvel and that is an alternate universe spider man. and Thor is a man not Jane Foster and iron man isn’t a black female. That picture is also from years ago and it was only a promotional image.


I can keep on owning You losers all day long if you’d like but none of you even read the comics so why should I bother.

you guys have No clue what you’re talking about. None whatsoever.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

Oh, I'm just going to drop this here...

Marvel is totally not woke, guys.

 

[Contempt]

Horrible analogy, because I read Marvel comics since I was five up until the wokeness was impossible to ignore, which was around 2013 for me.

So... you're claiming Marvel is no longer woke? Because your mockery of my point of the art being pathetic as 'girls aren’t as hot now' is more laughable at your expense because literally in the age of the Internet, Instagram, and Cosplay no one would actually be playing $4 an issue for 'hot superheroes' even if they were still hot. So if I was to fork $4 an issue over, I'd at least want them to be not hideous.

Are you saying those obviously aren't tokenized characters?
Have you looked at the sales figures for 2022 so far? How about all of 2021 and 2020?
How about the sales figures of Marvel & DC VS Manga?

Come on man, you've seen more than enough of his posts to know that's all he has, misrepresent and strawman people's arguments to try and distract from the fact that his opinions are complete garbage.

...and anyone who disagrees with him is a racist, sexist, homophobic...etc, etc.

Standard predictable leftist tactics.

 

[StoneColdSteveAustin]

Horrible analogy, because I read Marvel comics since I was five up until the wokeness was impossible to ignore, which was around 2013 for me.

So... you're claiming Marvel is no longer woke? Because your mockery of my point of the art being pathetic as 'girls aren’t as hot now' is more laughable at your expense because literally in the age of the Internet, Instagram, and Cosplay no one would actually be playing $4 an issue for 'hot superheroes' even if they were still hot. So if I was to fork $4 an issue over, I'd at least want them to be not hideous.

Are you saying those obviously aren't tokenized characters?
Have you looked at the sales figures for 2022 so far? How about all of 2021 and 2020?
How about the sales figures of Marvel & DC VS Manga?

2013 marvel was having their huge crossover Infinity event that eventually led into Jonathan Hickmans Secret Wars.

I don’t remember Marvel being extremely
Woke like you claim but once again you don’t read the titles so how would you know anything.


Comic book sales have been steadily declining for years but you fail to realize buying trades is big and subscribing to the Unlimited App is becoming more popular.



one more thing, you mention miles morales sales being lackluster but he’s an extremely popular character going by the 300 million dollars into the spider verse made and how popular his ps5 title is.

 

[StoneColdSteveAustin]

Oh, I'm just going to drop this here...

Marvel is totally not woke, guys.

Imagine thinking this one picture means all of marvel is woke.

Sure it makes fun of Jordan Peterson and rightfully so considering how easy he is to mock but I don’t think that one little picture means all of marvel is woke.


So Kindly Stfu

 

[Mike]

It's a good start that you're admitting that you're wrong and backing out of the discussion but do you at least have a comment on the blatant woke replacement/rewriting of established characters mentioned?

Black female Iron Man
Asian Hulk
Muslim Miss Marvel
Black/Latino Spider-Man
Female Captain America

Also: female Thor, and the fact that Iceman was a complete womaniser for most of the history of the comics and a couple of years back they decided... oh yeah, now he's gay

Well for starters these usually aren't replacements. The original version of the character still exists. When they made war machine, a black version of Iron man waaaaaay before the black female Iron man, he did not permanently replace stark. The same way this female character also didn't permanently replace stark. Miles Morales Spiderman did not replace Peter Parker. The Miguel Spiderman from 2099 also did not replace Parker.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

2013 marvel was having their huge crossover Infinity event that eventually led into Jonathan Hickmans Secret Wars.

Yeah, ANOTHER Secret Wars.

And in 2016 they had ANOTHER Civil War.

Sorry, but paying $4 an issue for half-assed sequels to old plotlines shows a shocking lack of creativity.

Have they done another House of M?

I don’t remember Marvel being extremely
Woke like you claim but once again you don’t read the titles so how would you know anything.

You claim Marvel isn't woke now so your woke-detector is shit.

Since I haven't read any titles in a while, could you answer me one question, StoneCold?

We already established they try to replace white superheroes with gender-swapped or minority knock-off characters. Have they done that to any Black super heroes?

Storm?
Blade?
Deathlok?
Bishop?

Hell, how about any classicly identified female or minority character being replaced by a white male?

one more thing, you mention miles morales sales being lackluster but he’s an extremely popular character going by the 300 million dollars into the spider verse made and how popular his ps5 title is.

It was a Spiderman game for a launch title for the PS5. Of course it was going to sell well.

And, I'll give credit where its due, the Into The Spiderverse movie was pretty damn good. It had Peter Parker in a mentor role and Miles as a young learner, it was a damn good coming of age version of SpiderMan. I'm actually looking forward to the sequel.

Neither of these points changes the fact the Miles Morales issue sales are in the shitter, to the point they'd be cancelled, even taking into account the lower average comics sales across the industry.

 

[Mike]

And making new versions of characters isn't new. Either by having someone else take on the role of a character, or by introducing a new version of a character with the same or similar powers. Some examples from many years before any "woke" political culture:

The female Robin from the dark knight returns. The Spiderman clones Kaine and Ben Reilly. Kyle Raynor green lantern. Azrael as batman. Multiple thors including aliens like beta ray bill. An alien version of super girl. Multiple captain America's. War machine. Multiple versions of flash. The John Stewart Green lantern.

And on and on. They've endlessly rebooted these characters over the years. Sometimes keeling race and gender the same, and sometimes changing them. This isn't a new thing.

 

[Contempt]

Well for starters these usually aren't replacements. The original version of the character still exists. When they made war machine, a black version of Iron man waaaaaay before the black female Iron man, he did not permanently replace stark. The same way this female character also didn't permanently replace stark. Miles Morales Spiderman did not replace Peter Parker. The Miguel Spiderman from 2099 also did not replace Parker.

Horse fucking shit. Ultimate spiderman was my favorite comic at the time (and one of the best selling comics Marvel had from memory) when they decided to kill off Peter Parker and replace him with Miles the next month.

I gave the "new and improved" Spiderman a chance for over a year but eventually just stopped reading it because funnily enough, that was not the character that everyone loved and made the comic so successful.

This kind of bullshit was what finally made me stop bothering to read comics... now I have many thousands of the things in boxes in a cupboard with no idea what the hell to do with them.

 

[Mike]

Yeah, ANOTHER Secret Wars.

And in 2016 they had ANOTHER Civil War.

Sorry, but paying $4 an issue for half-assed sequels to old plotlines shows a shocking lack of creativity.

Have they done another House of M?


You claim Marvel isn't woke now so your woke-detector is shit.

Since I haven't read any titles in a while, could you answer me one question, StoneCold?

We already established they try to replace white superheroes with gender-swapped or minority knock-off characters. Have they done that to any Black super heroes?

Storm?
Blade?
Deathlok?
Bishop?

Hell, how about any classicly identified female or minority character being replaced by a white male?



It was a Spiderman game for a launch title for the PS5. Of course it was going to sell well.

And, I'll give credit where its due, the Into The Spiderverse movie was pretty damn good. It had Peter Parker in a mentor role and Miles as a young learner, it was a damn good coming of age version of SpiderMan. I'm actually looking forward to the sequel.

Neither of these points changes the fact the Miles Morales issue sales are in the shitter, to the point they'd be cancelled, even taking into account the lower average comics sales across the industry.

When most of these older "legacy" ips are almost exclusively white, how can you be surprised that it's the white characters that are changed to minorities and not the other way around? They're going to reboot all these franchises an essentially endless number of times. As they do so, they're going to want to reach a new audience with these existing ips.

Can you not see a logical reason for these changes, that doesn't have anything to do with hating white people? The comics creators themselves realized as far back as the silver age that having a completely homogenous world of only white characters wasn't good for growth long term. That's why as far back as the mid 70s we saw things like a reboot of the xmen with a cast of mostly minorities. Did that lead to every iteration of the xmen being all minorities? It didn't, right? Seeing as the xmen cartoon was mostly white characters and is one of the most popular lineups ever.

Adding minority versions of characters doesn't mean they just erase the originals. That's literally never been how it's worked.

 

[StoneColdSteveAustin]

Yeah, ANOTHER Secret Wars.

And in 2016 they had ANOTHER Civil War.

Sorry, but paying $4 an issue for half-assed sequels to old plotlines shows a shocking lack of creativity.

Have they done another House of M?


You claim Marvel isn't woke now so your woke-detector is shit.

Since I haven't read any titles in a while, could you answer me one question, StoneCold?

We already established they try to replace white superheroes with gender-swapped or minority knock-off characters. Have they done that to any Black super heroes?

Storm?
Blade?
Deathlok?
Bishop?

Hell, how about any classicly identified female or minority character being replaced by a white male?



It was a Spiderman game for a launch title for the PS5. Of course it was going to sell well.

And, I'll give credit where its due, the Into The Spiderverse movie was pretty damn good. It had Peter Parker in a mentor role and Miles as a young learner, it was a damn good coming of age version of SpiderMan. I'm actually looking forward to the sequel.

Neither of these points changes the fact the Miles Morales issue sales are in the shitter, to the point they'd be cancelled, even taking into account the lower average comics sales across the industry.

secret wars was awesome and written by one of their most popular writers in Jonanthan Hickman. But once again you didn’t read it so how can you even comment on it?


And for the 1000th time none of those characters mentioned replaced anyone. How many times does this need to be repeated? Did you read the Jane foster storyline that made perfect sense in the overall THOR storyline Jason Aaron wrote for almost a decade? Of course you didn’t. Jane Foster became Thor once regular Thor was deemed unworthy. From that storyline came Jane fosters Thor into a Unworthy Thor storyline into King Thor into regular old Thor reclaiming the mantle. You would know that if you actually read the storyline but you didn’t so all you can do is make comments about something you know nothing about it.


I’d also like to mention if there was a good storyline about black panther secretly being replaced by a white man I wouldn’t mind at all if the story was solid and made sense. And of course I’m mature enough to understand T’Challa would eventually return to the normal status quo.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

Imagine thinking this one picture means all of marvel is woke.

Sure it makes fun of Jordan Peterson and rightfully so considering how easy he is to mock but I don’t think that one little picture means all of marvel is woke.


So Kindly Stfu

Not just that one picture, its the cherry on top of the 'Everything Woke Turns To Shit' ice cream.

 

[StoneColdSteveAustin]

@Mike


You ever notice these guys never mention Doctor Octopus replacing peter Parker as spider man in superior spider man? When talking about these things. I suspect it’s because one white male character replaced another white male character. And theyre very much okay with that. That’s why they always have to pull at straws and bring up things like Amadeus Cho as the hulk. Even tho Bruce banner is still the hulk.

it’s probably because they’re completely full of shit.

 

[StoneColdSteveAustin]

Not just that one picture, its the cherry on top of the 'Everything Woke Turns To Shit' ice cream.

Except you don’t read any of it so you wouldn’t know.

 

[Mike]

Horse fucking shit. Ultimate spiderman was my favorite comic at the time (and one of the best selling comics Marvel had from memory) when they decided to kill off Peter Parker and replace him with Miles the next month.

I gave the "new and improved" Spiderman a chance for over a year but eventually just stopped reading it because funnily enough, that was not the character that everyone loved and made the comic so successful.

This kind of bullshit was what finally made me stop bothering to read comics... now I have many thousands of the things in boxes in a cupboard with no idea what the hell to do with them.

Yes that's an alternate continuity where they did kill Parker. But that's hardly something you can pin just on the creation of miles Morales. He was killed in the fallout from the disastrous decision to wipe out the ultimates continuity entirely because they didn't know what to do with it anymore. Culminating in the atrocious Ultimatum crossover event where they killed off damn near everyone for shock value in a cheap attempt to boost sales.

However in the main 616 continuity, Peter Parker is still alive and still Spiderman. You're not wrong at all about it being a poor decision. But it was one small part of a bunch of terrible decisions that sank that entire imprint, not just ultimate Spiderman.

 

[Mike]

@Mike


You ever notice these guys never mention Doctor Octopus replacing peter Parker as spider man in superior spider man? When talking about these things. I suspect it’s because one white male character replaced another white male character. And theyre very much okay with that. That’s why they always have to pull at straws and bring up things like Amadeus Cho as the hulk. Even tho Bruce banner is still the hulk.

it’s probably because they’re completely full of shit.

I'd wager they don't even know about stuff like that. Or as I mentioned, replacing a white green lantern with 2 different white green lanterns in the 90s. Or batman with a different white batman. Or Spiderman with a different also white, Spiderman clone. Replacements that typically bombed and received negative backlash from fans. Because regardless if race is changed or kept the same, comic fans often do not like established characters being replaced.


New versions operating in the same universe often do fine, like war machine. But replacements of beloved characters are often hated just because it's different.

 

[StoneColdSteveAustin]

Yes that's an alternate continuity where they did kill Parker. But that's hardly something you can pin just on the creation of miles Morales. He was killed in the fallout from the disastrous decision to wipe out the ultimates continuity entirely because they didn't know what to do with it anymore. Culminating in the atrocious Ultimatum crossover event where they killed off damn near everyone for shock value in a cheap attempt to boost sales.

However in the main 616 continuity, Peter Parker is still alive and still Spiderman. You're not wrong at all about it being a poor decision, but it was one small part of a bunch of terrible decisions thatSan, that entire imprint, not just ultimate Spiderman.

yes. Then they created a new ultimate universe and also destroyed that in the lead up to 2015 Secret Wars storyline. That storyline incoprated miles morales and the evil reed Richards into the marvel 616 universe.

This is something DC comics has been doing for decades. They act like these storylines are unheard of.

 

[Contempt]

Yes that's an alternate continuity where they did kill Parker. But that's hardly something you can pin just on the creation of miles Morales. He was killed in the fallout from the disastrous decision to wipe out the ultimates continuity entirely because they didn't know what to do with it anymore. Culminating in the atrocious Ultimatum crossover event where they killed off damn near everyone for shock value in a cheap attempt to boost sales.

However in the main 616 continuity, Peter Parker is still alive and still Spiderman. You're not wrong at all about it being a poor decision, but it was one small part of a bunch of terrible decisions thatSan, that entire imprint, not just ultimate Spiderman.

They had NO reason to kill off Peter Parker in that comic apart to blatantly replace him with another (diverse) character. It was not part of a crossover event or anything bigger than a short storyline, localised to that comic.

The comic continued for YEARS after they did that.

 

[Contempt]

I'd wager they don't even know about stuff like that. Or as I mentioned, replacing a white green lantern with 2 different white green lanterns in the 90s. Or batman with a different white batman. Or Spiderman with a different also white, Spiderman clone. Replacements that typically bombed and received negative backlash from fans. Because regardless if race is changed or kept the same, comic fans often do not like established characters being replaced.


New versions operating in the same universe often do fine, like war machine. But replacements of beloved characters are often hated just because it's different.

OK lets talk about all the many times that black and minority characters have been replaced by white characters like... um... yeah... about that.

When it only ever happens in one direction, it says a whole lot about their motivations.

 

[Mike]

They had NO reason to kill off Peter Parker in that comic apart to blatantly replace him with another (diverse) character. It was not part of a crossover event or anything bigger than a short storyline, localised to that comic.

The comic continued for YEARS after they did that.

They didn't have much of a reason to kill off daredevil, wasp, cyclops, magneto, doom, professor x, and many others in the Ultimatum event either. The powers that be fucked that entire imprint right into the ground. Sales flagged and they didn't know what to do, so they killed off basically everyone for shock value. Starting with the flagship character of that entire line. Spiderman. It was a shitty decision.

My main point there is that's a larger situation than just ultimate Spiderman. And contrary to what casuals that don't read comics often think, the main continuity 616 Spiderman was not killed off and replaced with a black Spiderman. But yes, they did kill off ultimates Peter and it sucked. That's around the time I stopped reading the ultimates line. As the writing on ultimates avengers and xmen had drastically declined around the same time.