WW vs HW

[attftl86]

He meant 9 and DOWN. He clarified that later on when i asked.

Yea sorry, I should've been more clear and said anyone outside the Top 8. But I agree with what you are saying, guys like Edgar, could do fine getting back to the top of their division, I wouldn't know the difference though in a weight class so low. When I've fought at 145 and 155 I wouldn't say either was stronger or faster than the other, the only real significant difference I've felt while competing was against a wrestler who felt really strong and it was at 145 but he physically felt more powerful than any one I have ever competed against.

I guess it's about eliminating potentials for guys like Edgar and Machida. Neither has been horribly out muscled consecutively in fights, but dropping a weight class just eliminates the possibility of dealing with it. It won't be easy at the top of any division, but I guess in terms of threats, if you can cut the weight, you'll help get away from some of the physical struggles you faced with bigger guys, whether it's punching power, getting controlled, etc

 

[DownwardStrike]

In his post fight press conference, Rumble stated that he would never fight at HW again because of the size differential. Rumble. This thread is speculative nonsense.

 

[PierreDrillin]

Depends on fighting match ups and how ww push the pace. Rumble should know

 

[Natman2939]

Yea sorry, I should've been more clear and said anyone outside the Top 8. But I agree with what you are saying, guys like Edgar, could do fine getting back to the top of their division, I wouldn't know the difference though in a weight class so low. When I've fought at 145 and 155 I wouldn't say either was stronger or faster than the other, the only real significant difference I've felt while competing was against a wrestler who felt really strong and it was at 145 but he physically felt more powerful than any one I have ever competed against.

I guess it's about eliminating potentials for guys like Edgar and Machida. Neither has been horribly out muscled consecutively in fights, but dropping a weight class just eliminates the possibility of dealing with it. It won't be easy at the top of any division, but I guess in terms of threats, if you can cut the weight, you'll help get away from some of the physical struggles you faced with bigger guys, whether it's punching power, getting controlled, etc

Yea and sometimes I think it literally comes down to who's champion (sort of like how cormier is only fighting at LHW because Cain is champ)

Machida probably would've tried to go to 185 earlier if Anderson hadn't been champion for so long.

But it's not just friends of course. Somebody might think they have a better chance at Jones than they do at Cain.

Someone might think they have a better chance at Hendricks than they do against Pettis (just for example)

Randy Couture retired after losing to Liddell but came back because he felt he could beat Tim Sylvia.

Sometimes the specific match up helps

 

[attftl86]

In his post fight press conference, Rumble stated that he would never fight at HW again because of the size differential. Rumble. This thread is speculative nonsense.

I understand, but I am also talking about mostly those not within the Top 10. Not very heavyweight moves like Arlovski or can last like him. It is speculative but it's a forum, it's just making conversation, I don't understand why the majority of people on sherdog feel the need to shit on any thread not made by them.

 

[DownwardStrike]

I understand, but I am also talking about mostly those not within the Top 10. Not very heavyweight moves like Arlovski or can last like him. It is speculative but it's a forum, it's just making conversation, I don't understand why the majority of people on sherdog feel the need to shit on any thread not made by them.

That's fair enough, maybe I was a bit harsh, it's nearly 5am here and I'm cranky. :redface: Nevertheless, I do think the premise is flawed. Peace man.

 

[daddison]

A person who fights at one hundred seventy pounds is typically a fairly large person. They probably walk around at two hundred pounds. A heavyweight typically is not cutting weight to get to the two sixty five pound limit. That being said I would estimate the average heavyweight weighs between two hundred thirty five pounds and two hundred sixty five pounds. It is not out of the question that a two hundred pound welter weight could out work a heavy weight but I am skeptical.....

Due to personal experience I doubt the ability of the top welter weights to be able to hang with the 10-30 ranked heavy weights. I am a D1 heavy weight wrestler at the university of Wyoming, the weight limit in college wrestling at heavy weight is two hundred eighty five pounds versus the two hundred sixty five pound limit in the ufc and I am a fit two hundred sixty pounds in season, and get to around two hundred ninety pounds in the off season. I am larger than most ufc heavyweights but that aside when I wrestle with guys in the room who wrestle at the one hundred seventy four pound weight class or the one hundred sixty five pound weight class, they can be top ten in the nation and still get rag dolled. Even good one hundred eighty four pound wrestlers and one hundred ninety seven pound guys can't hang with heavy weights.

The fact is, people do not understand that like heavy weight wrestling, heavy weight fighting is a sport all in its own. People assume the division is weak, they do not understand heavy weights are different athletes. Size does matter. And in the case of the greatest heavy weights, size, strength and conditioning creates a gap that is unbreachable by smaller weights.

 

[Jackpot]

The HW could simply clinch and push the WW agaisnt the cage and hold the fight there with dirty boxing

 

[attftl86]

Yea and sometimes I think it literally comes down to who's champion (sort of like how cormier is only fighting at LHW because Cain is champ)

Machida probably would've tried to go to 185 earlier if Anderson hadn't been champion for so long.

But it's not just friends of course. Somebody might think they have a better chance at Jones than they do at Cain.

Someone might think they have a better chance at Hendricks than they do against Pettis (just for example)

Randy Couture retired after losing to Liddell but came back because he felt he could beat Tim Sylvia.

Sometimes the specific match up helps

Very true. I think that was a big part of Faber going to 135, he saw Cruz as a winnable fight. I think his game was completely nullified by Aldo and didn't see a way to win that fight, Cruz on the other hand he beat previously, but on top of that is a very different style compared to Aldo's.

I think the guys at 145 have it bad. Go to 135 Barao is waiting at the top, explosive, powerful dynamic finisher, go up to 155 and once you make your way to the top (which is tough task), you have Pettis, who poses many of the same threats as Barao and Aldo.

 

[ToetotheFace]

so they couldn't beat the cans but could own JDS and Cain? get real son.

Numerically it makes sense. You are thinking of descending as "up" only because you are thinking of the value system as MMA(1 is the highest value).

 

[blewgums]

There are no stupid questions, only stupid threads. This is a stupid thread. Butt hole.

 

[attftl86]

A person who fights at one hundred seventy pounds is typically a fairly large person. They probably walk around at two hundred pounds. A heavyweight typically is not cutting weight to get to the two sixty five pound limit. That being said I would estimate the average heavyweight weighs between two hundred thirty five pounds and two hundred sixty five pounds. It is not out of the question that a two hundred pound welter weight could out work a heavy weight but I am skeptical.....

Due to personal experience I doubt the ability of the top welter weights to be able to hang with the 10-30 ranked heavy weights. I am a D1 heavy weight wrestler at the university of Wyoming, the weight limit in college wrestling at heavy weight is two hundred eighty five pounds versus the two hundred sixty five pound limit in the ufc and I am a fit two hundred sixty pounds in season, and get to around two hundred ninety pounds in the off season. I am larger than most ufc heavyweights but that aside when I wrestle with guys in the room who wrestle at the one hundred seventy four pound weight class or the one hundred sixty five pound weight class, they can be top ten in the nation and still get rag dolled. Even good one hundred eighty four pound wrestlers and one hundred ninety seven pound guys can't hang with heavy weights.

The fact is, people do not understand that like heavy weight wrestling, heavy weight fighting is a sport all in its own. People assume the division is weak, they do not understand heavy weights are different athletes. Size does matter. And in the case of the greatest heavy weights, size, strength and conditioning creates a gap that is unbreachable by smaller weights.

I agree with much of what you say, and that brings me to this. I mean no offense to MMA heavyweights, but those MMA HW fighters not ranked within MMA usually don't posses the athletic ability as a heavyweight wrestler such as yourself. They can't take the grind and they can't last.

I only brought this up because of what I see in training often. A lot of A heavyweights don't possess that resume of D1 wrestler. They may have played college football, or boxed amateur, but their not guys who have credentials that are as impressive and I think that's why these guys who fight at WW are having success against the heavies.

 

[Kingfarthur]

In his post fight press conference, Rumble stated that he would never fight at HW again because of the size differential. Rumble. This thread is speculative nonsense.

He used to be a WW, plus he was being humble. Rumble=Humble

 

[attftl86]

There are no stupid questions, only stupid threads. This is a stupid thread. Butt hole.

I assume the people posting like you, don't train. This is from a training perspective, it's what I witness on the daily, so I brought it up. So I wouldn't expect you to understand something that you're not a part of, you're just a fan of it. Don't have to open the thread.