WTF, 'If you train at other school you no longer welcome'

[Brooklyn BJJ]

BJJ Politcs + old school martial arts ways my friend.

I guess I am older and think its good to have loyalty, be respectful and have honor in asking permission.

I don't know about anybody else but when I go on vacation I let Relson know then he says, "Ok. Just go train." But then I ask him for something in writing and he says, "Bob, you don't need nothing. You have my permission." But I insist, "Please give me your approval in writing to present to the instructor." He relents and puts it on official Relson Gracie letter head it reads in part

To whom it may concern,

The student before you, (name here), has been a student of mine for (enter years/months). He is a (enter rank) directly under me. He has asked for and received my permission to train at your academy while he is on vacation/work/school assignment. Please afford him the opportunity to train at your school. If you have any questions, please call me at (telephone number).

Sincerely,

Relson Gracie

I take the original and two copies with me and present a copy of the letter to the instructor. If they want to see the original I show them that. I will pay the drop in fee or whatever we discuss but so far no one has really charged me. They get to keep the letter or give it back and I make friends on both sides. I take pictures with them and send them some gifts from Hawaii or give them the ones I brought. Whenever they travel to Honolulu, HI they got a person of contact. Win, win.

That sounds pretty cool, I would probably do the same thing, did you go to an affiliate school or?

 

[Prokofievian]

Read the rest of the stuff I wrote, we posted at the same time it seems.

First off, Gene is a lifelong martial artist, and he brings a lot of "tradition" into bjj. I like that, and one of the things I like is how he wants loyalty.

Think about it, if you are running your own school, wouldnt you want your students to tell you they will be training somewhere else at the very least? Would you be cool with your students training with you for 6 months, then leaving to a competitor school without telling you, then coming back like nothing happened wanting to train again?

Thats what I hate about american bjj , the whole "fuck you, i pay my money so i do whatever i want" shenanigan. I cant stand that, its more then business and money, if he doesnt understand that, then thats why he doesnt train with us any longer.

It really seems like he made his instructor aware of the fact that he had to quit because of a job. At that point in time, he wasnt a student. Afterwards, he wanted to continue his studies of the art, but couldnt at your academy. Well then, yes it is a business decision at that point. Why does someone who respectfully terminated the teacher student relationship have to inform the said teacher of his plans to learn elsewhere after the fact?

It really doesnt make any sense.

 

[Kimuralex]

Train with 'us', who are you again? There is noone named Alex on staff; I would like to know who I'm talking to. I don't know any Alex's fitting your description who were in the school when I was there from the begging. And if you are someone I know you probably know me.

I think you taking this way too serious anyways, chill out.

i train there, so if you were there you would train with me, meaning train with us. (btw, my grammer sucks if you couldnt tell, so maybe i should have wrote it differently....im not interested in becoming an english professor LOL)

anyway, i been training mostly on avenue U with gene since the summer of 06, (started about the same time i joined sherdog)....and yea my name is alex, and yours? If you left a long time ago, i dont know if i would remember you....because people come and go all the time.

 

[Kimuralex]

It really seems like he made his instructor aware of the fact that he had to quit because of a job. At that point in time, he wasnt a student. Afterwards, he wanted to continue his studies of the art, but couldnt at your academy. Well then, yes it is a business decision at that point. Why does someone who respectfully terminated the teacher student relationship have to inform the said teacher of his plans to learn elsewhere after the fact?

It really doesnt make any sense.

so answer my question, if you had your own school, and had a student for half a year....and FINE, the studnet told you he cant train no more cuz of XXX, but didnt tell you that he would train at another school (might even call it competitor school if you want), and then he comes back to you some time after asking to train again.

Just think of it objectively, im not even going to go into the fact that the owners of the schools are blackbelts, with gene being a blackbelt in multiple other arts, and that they can do really whatever they want to. Its their school, so its their rules, and if people dont like it they can go elsewhere, this is NYC and theres tons of school.s

 

[DaRuckus337]

^ Objectively? As an objective person running a business, I would put my petty jealousy of the competition and feelings of personal slight aside and let the old customer return. If he pays and trains hard, why the fuck would an objective owner object to his return?

 

[D3thr0n3d K1ng]

Any school that says that shit you shouldt go to.

Any instructor who says that has self-esteem problems.

 

[jjmuaythaiguy]

That sounds pretty cool, I would probably do the same thing, did you go to an affiliate school or?

The instructors who got the letter and kept them were happy and very respectful. Like I said, no one has really charged me but I buy a ton of shirts, patches and other stuff from the schools plus I bring a hell of a lot of gifts from Hawaii AND send a card or two once a year.

No, I don't need a letter for an affiliate school.

I trained at Roger Gracie's School in London and rolled with Roger. Roger kept the letter and called Relson "Uncle Relson" (long story). I got bitched by Roger.

I went to Paris and the instructor was a Dela Riva Black Belt lineage and I don't know the school affiliation but Carlson somewhere I would think.

I trained with BJ Penn. Relson respects BJ. That was awesome. In fact I just got BJ to sign our photo together from training together at the On the Mat grand opening.

Thats about it, next plan is for China so I plan on making contact with Shanghaibjj and train at their school when I am there and then with Renzo on my return.

 

[endurance]

Man if I payed someone for a service and asked them permission to get that service from someone else.... I'd feel like a punkass bitch the rest of my life. Fuck that shit.

Yeah thats why I mostly go to mma gyms if you say where you have went they are like that is cool. Most Gracie and some other gyms have alot of rules. I went to A bjj gym they said it was rude to ask a higher up to roll. I just went there and had to roll when some new guys. I would just find a good mma no gi gym.

 

[stu3ufc**]

instructor cud of been more understanding-- not like ur doing it out of selfishness-- just u need a place to train

 

[ZakS]

Any school that says that shit you shouldt go to.

Any instructor who says that has self-esteem problems.

I highly doubt Rickson has self-esteem issues.

It is/should be common knowledge that this is the way things work in bjj, has been forever. As others have said loyalty is fucking huge in this martial art. You do things only with your instructors permission, this is how things work.

 

[DaRuckus337]

I have a question for Kimuralex, jjmuaythaiguy and the rest who seem to know about this stuff: Who makes these rules, where are they written down, and do they make sure to tell all the incoming students about them explicitly? I mean, I'm at a serious Gracie affiliate, but have never been given any kind of 'rules instruction' aside from the standard sign that says 'leave your ego at the door.' If there were strict loyalty rules at my school, how would I even know about them until they were broken? Does anyone ever bother to explain these things to everyone?

 

[Brooklyn BJJ]

The instructors who got the letter and kept them were happy and very respectful. Like I said, no one has really charged me but I buy a ton of shirts, patches and other stuff from the schools plus I bring a hell of a lot of gifts from Hawaii AND send a card or two once a year.

No, I don't need a letter for an affiliate school.

I trained at Roger Gracie's School in London and rolled with Roger. Roger kept the letter and called Relson "Uncle Relson" (long story). I got bitched by Roger.

I went to Paris and the instructor was a Dela Riva Black Belt lineage and I don't know the school affiliation but Carlson somewhere I would think.

I trained with BJ Penn. Relson respects BJ. BJ was respectful of Relson, that was awesome. In fact I just got BJ to sign our photo together at the On the Mat grand opening.

Thats about it, next plan is for China so I plan on making contact with Shanghaibjj and train at their school when I am there and then with Renzo on my return.

Wow man, you been to so many places. I'm pretty jealous. Why china? I would go somewhere to Japan, seems like more existing place to visit.

 

[judogido]

How lame.

Why would an instructor have a problem just because someone went to train elsewhere? ... I don't get it. This whole "loyalty and respect" bullshit I don't buy either.. Loyalty is not something you force upon people, it is something earned and freely given.

A very poor attitude. Sort of like bullying - so the other student's fear to go elsewhere in case they get teh ban.

Hey - sounds like you are better off.

 

[judogido]

By the way - if you go post on any other forum, you're not welcome back at Sherdog Grappling forum ....

... that's just the way it is - it's a loyalty and respect thing...

 

[Kimuralex]

I have a question for Kimuralex, jjmuaythaiguy and the rest who seem to know about this stuff: Who makes these rules, where are they written down, and do they make sure to tell all the incoming students about them explicitly? I mean, I'm at a serious Gracie affiliate, but have never been given any kind of 'rules instruction' aside from the standard sign that says 'leave your ego at the door.' If there were strict loyalty rules at my school, how would I even know about them until they were broken? Does anyone ever bother to explain these things to everyone?

I heard gene and brian say this multiple times over the past year or so....they really dont need justification or explanation for why they want that.

If i had my own bjj school, i would say that anyone with a mohawk and tapout tatoos cant train with me, you can curse and complain all you want, but its my school and my rule(this is hypothetical), i hope you understand.

anyway im done with this discussion, its funny to me when some blue belts question what blackbelts do.

 

[irc]

there we go, loyalty and respect. glad theres other acadamies that have students containing these attributes

Is this whole thing an elaborate flame?

This sounds like the biggest pile of donkey-shit I've ever seen described.

Fuck this pussy-ass pseudo-loyalty bullshit. The OP did nothing disloyal. Jesus. It sounds like some shit 12-year old girls would come up with. OP, tell these guys to suck a HUGE BAG OF DICKS.

And a permission letter? Hhahahaha. Stick a permission letter up you ass.

 

[stu3ufc**]

I heard gene and brian say this multiple times over the past year or so....they really dont need justification or explanation for why they want that.

If i had my own bjj school, i would say that anyone with a mohawk and tapout tatoos cant train with me, you can curse and complain all you want, but its my school and my rule(this is hypothetical), i hope you understand.

anyway im done with this discussion, its funny to me when some blue belts question what blackbelts do.

You shouldn't discrimanate people on the way the dress, race, religion.........thats just wrong, martial arts should be for everyone

 

[irc]

anyway im done with this discussion, its funny to me when some blue belts question what blackbelts do.

Black belts are not gods. If they do stupid shit, they should be questioned, even by a white belt. What damn difference does it make? This is not fucking karate kid daniel-son master may I kiss your fucking feet. It's BJJ, that's it.

 

[Brooklyn BJJ]

By the way - if you go post on any other forum, you're not welcome back at Sherdog Grappling forum ....

... that's just the way it is - it's a loyalty and respect thing...

Hah.

anyway im done with this discussion, its funny to me when some blue belts question what blackbelts do.

Well if you really listened to what the school teaches there are two things Brian always said: everyone was a white belt once and leave your ego at the door. No to mention speech you read at the end of the class.

So statements like that kinda go against everything school you and I attended at some point 'stands' for.

Go have a beer dude

 

[stu3ufc**]

Black belts are not gods. If they do stupid shit, they should be questioned, even by a white belt. What damn difference does it make? This is not fucking karate kid daniel-son master may I kiss your fucking feet. It's BJJ, that's it.

so true-- being a black belt doesnt make u master of the universe:icon_chee