Social WTF Elon ????????????????

[Liquid Smoke]

"In January, Tesla announced it would pay Musk nothingfor the next 10 years — no salary, bonus, or stock — until the company reaches a $100 billion market cap. If and when that happens, Musk could potentially overtake Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos as the richest person in the world."

If Musk owns 20% of $100 Billion and that's most of his money, how does he overtake Bezos who's net worth has been as high as $156 Billion?

 

[brackis1]

If Musk owns 20% of $100 Billion and that's most of his money, how does he overtake Bezos who's net worth has been as high as $156 Billion?

Because that's what he currently has; the plan is basically saying "we'll give you tens of billions of shares in the future as long as the paper value of your company reaches a certain level by a certain date".
As such, he has literally tens of billions of dollars riding on keeping the total valuation of his company high on paper so that he can get paid. So $20 Billion in shares owned now plus tens(or hundreds if it goes crazy high) billions of dollars in shares in the future.


https://www.forbes.com/sites/robert...art-billionaires-who-work-for-1/#4bdd6348dfee

 

[grizzard2bid]

Unreal levels of idiocracy.
The guy is basically shilling for his cars again.
Most car companies spend tens of millions on advertisements. He spends tens of millions of ridiculous spectacle ideas to get the media talking about him for free and the consumer is left thinking they're watching the future instead of an ad. Instead of actually focusing on what his products are, people are just slightly too dumb to understand the underlying principles he is talking about, but applaud his confidence. Frankly it's almost Trumpesque; the guy is a master of playing the masses.

At the end of the day he sells luxury cars.

Luxury cars with lower roadway pollution and noise. I like those telsa cars and yield to them in my 7ft tall monster V8 heavy duty truck. They keep gas prices down for me. God bless.

 

[Liquid Smoke]

Because that's what he currently has; the plan is basically saying "we'll give you tens of billions of shares in the future as long as the paper value of your company reaches a certain level by a certain date".
As such, he has literally tens of billions of dollars riding on keeping the total valuation of his company high on paper so that he can get paid.

If he owned all of it he'd still trail the beez.

 

[brackis1]

Glad you are back, it feels like you have been gone years?

Yep i've lurked a bit here and there, but have been gone for years basically. Finally got a lull in work stuff and felt conversationally indulgent with my internetting like the good ole days.

 

[brackis1]

To me what these stunts also speak to is some sort of social design dissonance about coingestion/transport and the idea of self-driving cars.
If we can safely get a huge fleet of cars and trucks on autopilot, total congestion will plummet and suddenly these archaic tunnels aren't necessary. Not only that, but people will be able to lend out autopilot cars or rent/hire services, making ownership pretty useless.

 

[Gandhi]

To me what these stunts also speak to is some sort of social design dissonance about coingestion/transport and the idea of self-driving cars.
If we can safely get a huge fleet of cars and trucks on autopilot, total congestion will plummet and suddenly these archaic tunnels aren't necessary. Not only that, but people will be able to lend out autopilot cars or rent/hire services, making ownership pretty useless.

Combine automated cars with computerized traffic lights/networked route planning and the whole game changes. That's gotta be more practical than subways for cars....

 

[west42]

A lot of his wealth depends on current stock prices. He has borrowed against the stock he owns; he is highly leverag ed. If tsla gets to 220ish, his lenders will force a margin call, at which point he's forced to sell tsla stock to prevent the lenders from lising too much, then things start to snowball downward for him.

If Musk owns 20% of $100 Billion and that's most of his money, how does he overtake Bezos who's net worth has been as high as $156 Billion?

 

[brackis1]

Combine automated cars with computerized traffic lights/networked route planning and the whole game changes. That's gotta be more practical than subways for cars....

These solutions require collective agreement, diffused responsibility, and decent government planning. The Tesla model is vertical integration under their leader.

People complain about government being slow, but the world is complex and cars are a perfect example of massive companies with insane amounts of engineering brilliants (Gas and electric car companies alike) and it's still hard to get a finished product that endures what us idiotic humans throw at them.
I wish we had a society where people could propose great ideas and then other people could fund and execute them without such obsession over founder-heros.

 

[brackis1]

A lot of his wealth depends on current stock prices. He has borrowed against the stock he owns; he is highly leverag ed. If tsla gets to 220ish, his lenders will force a margin call, at which point he's forced to sell tsla stock to prevent the lenders from lising too much, then things start to snowball downward for him.

That's a separate issue.
The guy you quoted is ASKING how 20 billion overtakes 150 billion (Musk to Bezos), but the article is actually poorly explaining that in ADDITION TO THE SHARES HE HAS NOW WORTH 20 BILLION, HE WOULD GET MILLIONS MORE SHARES IN THE FUTURE AS LONG AS THE COMPANY VALUE GROWS A CERTAIN AMOUNT. IF THAT GROWTH IS DECENT, THE TOTAL VALUE OF NEW SHARES AND EXISTING SHARES WOULD BE HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS (sorry about the caps lol)

 

[west42]

I think i quoted the wrong post. I did add s9me relavent info tho

That's a separate issue.
The guy you quoted is ASKING how 20 billion overtakes 150 billion (Musk to Bezos), but the article is actually poorly explaining that in ADDITION TO THE SHARES HE HAS NOW WORTH 20 BILLION, HE WOULD GET MILLIONS MORE SHARES IN THE FUTURE AS LONG AS THE COMPANY VALUE GROWS A CERTAIN AMOUNT. IF THAT GROWTH IS DECENT, THE TOTAL VALUE OF NEW SHARES AND EXISTING SHARES WOULD BE HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS (sorry about the caps lol)

 

[MikeMcMann]

It's extremely relevant to the topic at hand: Musk used a shitty concrete hole with LEDs and a timelapse camera to film an ad for his cars using people's hope for some sort of transit system reform. It's a reminder that the success of Musk's projects and their ability to be funded relies on a publicly traded fluctuation of sentiment for Tesla cars while simultaneously providing an outlet for said cars to be shown off. One relies on the other and their success is adjoined. It's highly leveraged and incestuous Musk hype.

It truly boggles my mind you could buy this shit as a valid idea worth the fanfare outside of being an advertisement. Cars on tracks is far from groundbreaking and I have accurately pointed out skeptical observations about Musk and his companies. And again, you calling me a shortseller has ZERO to do with my view that people are lemming fools who love a hero story when that hero tells them they are virtuous for buying their product. I can play it both ways and have. I'll be driving my beater car until my next beater and then might go electric once something reasonable comes along. I wouldn't rule out a Tesla if Musk left or they could prove reliable on the road year after year.

View attachment 490693 View attachment 490695

Agan your reading comprehension is pure shit. You are literally one of the most dense persons I have ever spoken to on this site. More and more verbal diarrhea that is just avoidance or strawman stuffing as others have pointed out.

I specifically said I don't even necessarily think Tesla will make it without being sold off for pennies. That is not my argument so take your strawman shit out of here.

What I have done is simply call you the mass of lies and stupidity you keep saying. I can both say I am not betting on Tesla but call you out when you say 'ALL of Elon's wealth is in Tesla stock' and when you suggest 'something is wrong with him having all his wealth in the stock of his various companies'. That is just two of the litany of stupid you have spewed in this thread.

Me calling out your stupidity =/= me being a Tesla or Elon supporter.

 

[MikeMcMann]

I already mentioned early in this thread that my original short at their bottom ($250) didn't work out and was honest about it.

ok

Unlike Musk, who recently claimed that around then, they actually almost folded.

What do you mean by that?

I didn't lose anything thankfully.
View attachment 490729 View attachment 490731

How does a short 'not work out' but then you 'did not lose anything?'

 

[brackis1]

ok

What do you mean by that?

How does a short 'not work out' but then you 'did not lose anything?'

In Elon Musk's most recent interview (for a guy busy running 3 companies he somehow has time for multihr sitdown chats on a weekly basis) he made the dramatic claim (probably for shock value) that Tesla was "weeks from insolvency earlier this year" as part of his general autoerotic suffucation hero narrative.
If that were true, my short position could have paid off nearly $248 per share shorted. Instead I covered my short for the same price after nothing happened when the stock reached 52 week lows and the company seemed to clear legal and production hurdles in time to satisfy cutthroat investors waiting on Q3 earnings reports to see if they could meet Musk's many insane claims.

The dude is an unhinged lunatic who builds fart apps for his cars and dedicates them to shortsellers.
You are the ultimate mark if you can't see how the man has double leveraged paperwealth across SpaceX/Tesla to pump up his futurism enterprise selling cars with government subsidies and using government speculative contracts for space research. Reusable rockets are indeed super cool and I objectively am in awe of the people who built that shit. Likewise, Teslas and/or lots of their tech are amazing. (not built by Musk either). Unfortunately the funding for both and the guidance are somehow in our idiocratic world assigned to a single man's hypebeast ways.

If Tesla goes bankrupt, Musk doesn't suddenly walk away with full value of SpaceX shares. It's intrinsically tied. The value would be destroyed too. Likewise if SpaceX bankrupts, Tesla is fucked too. Some day that might changed, but for now the guy is overleveraged on their co-dependency.

 

[Fanu]

Do you realize that most Teslas in China and many other countries are charged on a grid produced by coal? An electric car is only as clean as its energy source. Germany, Australia, US, China, etc. EV won't help Chinese smog a bit because the power grid is coal. It is just kicking the can down the road.

you have to start somewhere
its unrealistic to expect everything goes green just cause there are electric cars on the market

even if all electric cars were charged by energy harvested from coal plants, at least you have removed one source of pollution from cities (gasoline cars) - you can have all your coal plants outside of cities, making them cleaner

would you rather system stay the same as it was and everything was running on oil/coal, including cars ?

Also, Tesla ranks dead last in AI technology.

AI = Artificial intelligence
if you mean teslas autopilot, name me a better autopilot in a production car available for purchase today ? Tesla is the market leader when it comes to its autopilot

 

[jeffk]

Of course he wants to promote tunnels that cannot be used with carbon exhaust vehicles. It would make his cars more valuable.

He has talked about this idea after dealing with traffic in Los Angeles for some time but I have no idea how he would get around not digging up old sewer or other pipelines for the tunnels. It must be a mess under Los Angeles.

 

[MikeMcMann]

My problem with you is not so much your negative opinions on Elon and his future prospects. You can be a hater or skeptic and that is fine. I don't even necessarily greatly disagree (I'm more agnostic) on many points.

My problem with you is your hate of him leads you to then jump to wrong and often stupid conclusions that you have no basis for or to classify things as if some type of super negative even though they are not.

In Elon Musk's most recent interview (for a guy busy running 3 companies he somehow has time for multihr sitdown chats on a weekly basis) he made the dramatic claim (probably for shock value) that Tesla was "weeks from insolvency earlier this year" as part of his general autoerotic suffucation hero narrative.

So what? Have you read Bezo' story? Most entrepreneurs story who run super high growth business that are not built on the growth curve through profits? Most will almost run out of money many times during their run to profitability.

This is another example of you taking something normal and trying to demonize Elon for it.

If that were true, my short position could have paid off nearly $248 per share shorted. Instead I covered my short for the same price after nothing happened when the stock reached 52 week lows and the company seemed to clear legal and production hurdles in time to satisfy cutthroat investors waiting on Q3 earnings reports to see if they could meet Musk's many insane claims.

Ya sorry, as a guy who has worked in Venture Capital and Finance for the last 30 years I just don't believe you. You don't go short, see it hit your short to the point where if it goes ANY lower you are in the money and you just fill your short...WHEW just in time as it goes back up. But the history of 'traders', just like gamblers is to always 'break even'.

My belief does not matter though so I will just move on.

The dude is an unhinged lunatic who builds fart apps for his cars and dedicates them to shortsellers.
You are the ultimate mark if you can't see how the man has double leveraged paperwealth across SpaceX/Tesla to pump up his futurism enterprise selling cars with government subsidies and using government speculative contracts for space research. Reusable rockets are indeed super cool and I objectively am in awe of the people who built that shit. Likewise, Teslas and/or lots of their tech are amazing. (not built by Musk either). Unfortunately the funding for both and the guidance are somehow in our idiocratic world assigned to a single man's hypebeast ways.

If Tesla goes bankrupt, Musk doesn't suddenly walk away with full value of SpaceX shares. It's intrinsically tied. The value would be destroyed too. Likewise if SpaceX bankrupts, Tesla is fucked too. Some day that might changed, but for now the guy is overleveraged on their co-dependency

No one is denying Elon is super leveraged to his companies future success. So take that straw man shit out of here that you keep repeating. Jeff Bezos too is super leveraged and was very vulnerable for all of his companies non profitable growth run which was based on an estimated that at a certain scale they would make profits. If those profits never came his wealth would have went to zero.

There is nothing new in that. As I have said I could name hundreds or thousands of top Entrepreneur CEO where almost all of their wealth is tied to the future success of their companies.

So stop acting like this is a negative for Elon.

But good on you for recognizing the advancing of some very important tech in some of Elon's companies portfolio's even if you only begrudgingly want to give Elon the minimum credit.

The Entreprenuer does not have to be the inventor or designer to deserve credit. The entrepreneur job is to provide a vision of how to advance something from where it is today A up to pont Z and success and then ensure it has the capital (both money and people) to get there. If you cannot attract both the Money and the People to your vision you will fail.

Elon is so successful because he draws the Money and the Best People who can achieve things like a re-usable rocket. There will always be value in SpaceX technology portfolio and his other company portfolios even if the operating entities cannot prove to be commercially long term viable. So do not fool yourself and believe everything goes to zero if Tesla dies. SpaceX and other technologies would likely be spun out of Elon's control and portfolio at a price and acquired by another. But yes at a fraction of the growth valuations they currently enjoy. But not the zero you seem to NEED to say.

 

[MikeMcMann]

you have to start somewhere
its unrealistic to expect everything goes green just cause there are electric cars on the market

even if all electric cars were charged by energy harvested from coal plants, at least you have removed one source of pollution from cities (gasoline cars) - you can have all your coal plants outside of cities, making them cleaner

would you rather system stay the same as it was and everything was running on oil/coal, including cars ?



AI = Artificial intelligence
if you mean tesla's autopilot, name me a better autopilot in a production car available for purchase today ? Tesla is the market leader when it comes to its autopilot

And while what @JonesBones says is true about most of the power going into the Chinese grid this must also be considered..

China is the world's largest market for both photovoltaics and solar thermal energy. ... By the end of 2016, total PV capacity had increased to over 77.4 GW, and in 2017 China was the first country to pass 100 GW of cumulative installed PV capacity. (Cite)

China is a massive and growing market and at the start of its growth curve it did not have the infrastructure to provide the energy needed for such growth without relying almost exclusively on traditional fossil fuels. that should be expected. But they have also been adding as fast as they can build it out on the Renewable energy side and they are at about 25%, which while not enough, is still moving very well in the right direction.

Although China currently has the world's largest installed capacity of hydro, solar and wind power, its energy needs are so large that in 2015 renewable sources provided only 24% of its electricity generation, with most of the remainder provided by coal power plants. (Cite)

These are necessary steps and it seems China is committed to this path of increasing the renewables to a point they can ween off Fossil Fuels. It won't happen any time soon but its an important path just as you say having the cars not burning fossil fuels is a good incremental step and having that electric car infrastructure and all those cars on the road, means that as the renewables become more abundant, it will be taken advantage in a truly accretive way.

 

[brackis1]

you have to start somewhere
its unrealistic to expect everything goes green just cause there are electric cars on the market

even if all electric cars were charged by energy harvested from coal plants, at least you have removed one source of pollution from cities (gasoline cars) - you can have all your coal plants outside of cities, making them cleaner

would you rather system stay the same as it was and everything was running on oil/coal, including cars ?



AI = Artificial intelligence
if you mean teslas autopilot, name me a better autopilot in a production car available for purchase today ? Tesla is the market leader when it comes to its autopilot

What kind of reductive apologism is this? Better to start somewhere than nowhere? We're hailing this dude as a leader on climate change, when really we should be getting public grids onto renewables. It's cart before horse, or car before grid. Why? Because Musk can't own a straight up energy company and it's a lot easier to take on car companies than oil titans (though that might change given oil prices lately)
The point is that Musk centers the story around him and his cars being especially crucial, when he is entirely replaceable.

My problem with you is not so much your negative opinions on Elon and his future prospects. You can be a hater or skeptic and that is fine. I don't even necessarily greatly disagree (I'm more agnostic) on many points.

My problem with you is your hate of him leads you to then jump to wrong and often stupid conclusions that you have no basis for or to classify things as if some type of super negative even though they are not.

So what? Have you read Bezo' story? Most entrepreneurs story who run super high growth business that are not built on the growth curve through profits? Most will almost run out of money many times during their run to profitability.

This is another example of you taking something normal and trying to demonize Elon for it.



Ya sorry, as a guy who has worked in Venture Capital and Finance for the last 30 years I just don't believe you. You don't go short, see it hit your short to the point where if it goes ANY lower you are in the money and you just fill your short...WHEW just in time as it goes back up. But the history of 'traders', just like gamblers is to always 'break even'.

My belief does not matter though so I will just move on.


No one is denying Elon is super leveraged to his companies future success. So take that straw man shit out of here that you keep repeating. Jeff Bezos too is super leveraged and was very vulnerable for all of his companies non profitable growth run which was based on an estimated that at a certain scale they would make profits. If those profits never came his wealth would have went to zero.

There is nothing new in that. As I have said I could name hundreds or thousands of top Entrepreneur CEO where almost all of their wealth is tied to the future success of their companies.

So stop acting like this is a negative for Elon.

But good on you for recognizing the advancing of some very important tech in some of Elon's companies portfolio's even if you only begrudgingly want to give Elon the minimum credit.

The Entreprenuer does not have to be the inventor or designer to deserve credit. The entrepreneur job is to provide a vision of how to advance something from where it is today A up to pont Z and success and then ensure it has the capital (both money and people) to get there. If you cannot attract both the Money and the People to your vision you will fail.

Elon is so successful because he draws the Money and the Best People who can achieve things like a re-usable rocket. There will always be value in SpaceX technology portfolio and his other company portfolios even if the operating entities cannot prove to be commercially long term viable. So do not fool yourself and believe everything goes to zero if Tesla dies. SpaceX and other technologies would likely be spun out of Elon's control and portfolio at a price and acquired by another. But yes at a fraction of the growth valuations they currently enjoy. But not the zero you seem to NEED to say.

Jeff Bezos is a toolbag loser running a company built on capital advantage, loss leading, and margin, not simply technological innovation. It's apples to oranges.

How that TSLA stock this morning? Ouch.
I'm a sensationalist? Dude. elon fucking musk went on 60 minutes and tried to tell the public his company was a few weeks from insolvency. Also that without his tech our earth will die. How the fuck am I the one being sensationalist in this scenario? What's more ridiculous? Calling out a billionaire grift or running a billionaire grift? hmmmm

It's hilarious to watch you spout off about China when Tesla's expansion there is actually one of its biggest stumbling points. Their sales there are down. Nio is a nationalist brand plus a few others with cars/battery networks.

 

[JonesBones]

you have to start somewhere
its unrealistic to expect everything goes green just cause there are electric cars on the market

even if all electric cars were charged by energy harvested from coal plants, at least you have removed one source of pollution from cities (gasoline cars) - you can have all your coal plants outside of cities, making them cleaner

would you rather system stay the same as it was and everything was running on oil/coal, including cars ?



AI = Artificial intelligence
if you mean teslas autopilot, name me a better autopilot in a production car available for purchase today ? Tesla is the market leader when it comes to its autopilot

Start somewhere? How is that starting somewhere? Electric cars are not the answer. lol at placing coal plants outside the cities as if the shit doesnt travel or contribute to global warming. lol. you are pathetic.

Google has a car that can literally drive itself.

BySimon Alvarez
Posted on January 18, 2018


According to a recently published study by Navigant research group, Tesla is currently dead last in the self-driving race, placing beside second-to-last Apple on the list of 19 companies. At the top of Navigant’s study were GM and Google’s Waymo, companies whose initiatives to develop and release autonomous vehicles to the public are ranked as being close to perfect.

Navigant’s analysis points the blame to Tesla and its eventual split with Mobileye, which was involved in the development and release of the first generation Autopilot system. Since its separation from the Israeli-based tech company, Tesla has spent significant effort in developing its own in-house self-driving suite – Autopilot 2. So far, however, the Elon Musk-led firm has encountered challenge after challenge, with improvements to EAP and new features trickling down in a rather slow stream.

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-finishes-last-navigant-research-self-driving-tech/