Wrestling help (i suck)!!!!!!!!????

[buyer5207]

I really suck at wrestling. I'm good at judo (if i can get into the clinch which every time I try to initiate the clinch the other guys shoots). I'm pretty good at hip tosses, sweeps, head throws etc. BUT I suck at the basic fundamentals at wrestling the double leg, single leg, and sprawling. First, how do i shoot the double leg? I know they teach you to put your knee down first but why do I see MMA fighters not touching there Knee to the ground? Do I have to Touch my knee because I would think you'd get less power that way? Also how do I finish the double, do I lift them up or kinda drag them to the ground etc. AND how do I get deep enough on the shot?

Another thing is my single...Do i grab the ankle or the knee? Should I just sweep the other leg as I've been doing(outside or inside depending on the situation if i have the leg between mine or if i have it to the outside)?

 

[MinowaGOAT]

for the double you should learn to set it up first and move your opponent to were you want him that should fix your depth problem on a shot. The whole knee thing is a glide step and it really does work and with the right set up it creates a great drive with your hips. To finish you just lift and push to the sied away from your head.

 

[eembach]

Wrestle more, watch more wrestling, and wrestle some more.

http://www.flowrestling.org/video

 

[Makhno]

i'll preface this by saying that i am horrible at wrestling/takedowns, but...

i think in mma fighters don't go to their knees because the stance is different. MMA fighters stand more upright so they can strike more effectively, whereas in grappling, you would be in a wrestling stance. You need to get lower to get to their hips.

as far as doubles go, the idea is not to lift your opponent so much as to push him to the side. if you shoot off your right foot, you'll want to use your head and your left leg to push him to your right. Pull his legs upward and to your left as you drive, and as you stand up put your right leg to the outside. this is how i have been taught the double, but i'm still not very good at actually landing it live.

 

[Makhno]

also, i'm currently watching videos posted in this thread, since i'm sidelined with a concussion. Seems to be pretty solid stuff.

 

[Eddieg]

I don't like what I see from a lot of mixed martial artists when they shoot for doubles and such, they flop at their opponents legs and reach, you really shouldn't be doing that.

I'm no BJJ buff so I don't know if this makes you easier to submit, but i've always been taught to shoot your knee almost inbetween their legs and then followthrough with the rest of your body. Getting in DEEP on a shot should help you set up anything else.

 

[Calvo]

Do you have access to a wrestling class?

 

[Slick_36]

Wow... For future reference, never get wrestling technique from watching MMA. It's a totally different application. In MMA you have to worry about getting hit while going in for the shot, you also have to attempt the takedown without giving the opponent an advantageous position because in MMA one mistake can end 3 months of work in an instant.

Learn to wrestle by watching wrestling, it sounds redundant but if you're new and watch every step piece by piece, you'll start to pick up the mechanics. You want to touch your knee because it's a place to generate power from. Learn some sweep singles and stuff too, they were way more effect for me than doubles. One last thing is you need to get your stance lower, that will help keep guys from shooting in on you. When you go to tie up, keep your hips low and back so that that they have to go as far as possible to get in your hips.

 

[Gregolian]

When I have issues wrestling at the gym I end up watching these two vids when I get home:

 

[PillowHands]

just like punching and kicking doesnt rely on the extremities neither should wrestling. use the whole body and drive thru them thats where the real power is.

 

[Slick_36]

Exactly, it's all about exploding at the core.

 

[ThatOGD0n]

***WALL OF TEXT INBOUND. ETA 2 LINES DOWN***

Since you like to clinch, I suggest that you should try to work on the Russian 2 on 1.
It was one of my, scratch that, it was my most favorite grip/position when I wrestled.



Like somebody said before, the drop to the knee is used to change levels because you don't want to be bent over when shooting in. An example is the video below
When shooting in STAY UPRIGHT/ERECT, none of this stuff.

*the shot is around 2:40 in*

DO NOT BEND OVER LIKE THAT EVER especially if you're in the heavier divisions.
I learned that the hard way after I gassed, did a sloppy shot, and had 250 lbs of man smash down on top of me. I had some pretty hardcore mat burn on my forehead and right cheek afterwards which made the hot shower and the rest of the weeks practice, actually the rest of the week in general, pure hell.

When you drop to your knee, this ones really hard for me to explain, don't just think of it as "I'm dropping down on my knee." as a lot of times people tend to just stop after they get on one knee because they focused so much on just dropping to the knee and, from the looks of it, I don't think it feels pleasant on the knees. Try to think of it more as an extra step you have to do in order to keep moving forward. IDk, that's how I think about it at least.
Also, my wrestling coach had us do drills where we had to shoot in and pick the other guy up with just our shoulders. That's how deep you want to be to where the only reason your hands are there is to keep them from squirming away once you two come back down to earth.
If they do sprawl on you "cut the corners" or any number of things.



Another good tip for shots is to clear the hands. Hand/grip fight with him and make him open up to where there's a nice clear path to his legs.
Also, remember, there are four lines of defense you have to overcome: Head Hands Forearms Hips.

Speaking of head defense. Learn to use your head, literally. Use your head to push their head away from you by driving it in the space behind the jaw/under the ear. They can't shoot and expect to get anywhere near your legs if your head is in the way.
One of my favorite tactics in wrestling. From the collar tie, I used it a lot to push their face away so I could get my beloved Russian 2 on 1.

With sprawls you can't exactly be nice about it. He has your leg, you want it out.
Our wrestling coach told us that you want to smash their face into the mat with your hips when you do it.


***sorry if some, or a lot, of this doesn't make sense. I'm really horrible at explaining/instructing things.***

EDIT: I found a nice PDF file
http://library.crossfit.com/free/pdf/67_08_Speal_Wrestling.pdf

 

[Normot]

You know the way you applied yourself at Judo to get good at it? Do the same thing with wrestling. If you are good at Judo you know how to move correctly, now you just need to learn new moves. Hell, it's probably easier to teach a seonagi guy how to shoot a double than to teach him how to throw uchimata.

 

[SwitchOrSpladle]

get yur penetration step inbetween their knees or even past it to get deep on the Double. turn yur hips and drive at a diagonal, pulling the knee up and blocking the far knee. as long as yur deep and strong enough, u could pick him up as u drive.

my coaches say not to touch yur knee on the ground during doubles, which is a lil awk for me, but i dont use them much.

the single, u could be at teh knee, that my fav. go for leg sweeps, lift leg up and switch to double, or just work to stand upright with teh ankle goin for trips.

High Crotch is my go to move generally, its like the double in that its a step inbetween the knees, but yur arm shoots thru the crotch, then switches to the double, or single at the knee (from which u could work up to the ankle). if the kid isnt great, i could almost shoot a duck under with it, get him off balanced and his leg lifted backwards with the High C as he tries to sprawl or sumthing, and just get his back.

sweeps singles are great also, keeps you out of getting sprawled on, and its an energy conservative way to get an ankle.

 

[Slick_36]

Good post ThatOGD0n, you explained it excellently.

 

[ThatOGD0n]

Good post ThatOGD0n, you explained it excellently.

Thanks man. I appreciate it.
Still feel that I can expand some more. After I get some sleep I'll more than likely end up posting another Great Wall of Text

 

[buyer5207]

Thanks guys...Couple questions. Am I suppose to bend over or keep my back straight and if so which way do you mean back straight? At a 90 degree angle (horizontally) to them or vertically straight? What about head positioning to avoid the guillotine (MMA)?

Judo came more naturally. I can do pretty much all the nogi judo throws/trips. Now wrestling on the otherhand, doesn't come that way.

"Russian 2 on 1" is this aloud in folk-style wrestling?
THANKS AGAIN

 

[Blue Streak]

As someone who has fairly recently taken up wrestling after a decade of Judo training, perhaps I can offer you some insight.

As someone already said, with your Judo background you already have a lot of the core skills (sense of balance, ability to 'feel' opponent, 'grappling' conditioning) needed for wrestling, and many of the moves will be familiar to you, now you just have to learn some new moves. I would also add to that that now you also need to learn some new tactics. How you fight in wrestling is different to how you fight in Judo, and you will find yourself in positions that you would never have to deal with in Judo.

However, just like Judo, wrestling is hard to learn from instructionals and match footage (although they obviously help). You really need to go to a wrestling class, practice your shot (there is no real equivalent to this in Judo so you won't have the muscle memory or conditioning for it yet), get advice from a proper coach, and spar. Your Judo background should mean that you pick things up pretty fast, but as you seem to have already found out, it won't mean you will win wrestling matches without learning to actually wrestle.

So, the best advice anyone can give you is take wrestling lessons. In the meantime, here are some good instructionals that were recommended to me to give your some ideas:

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f12/q...estling-instructional-series-youtube-1710573/

Wrestling Technique Videos, Instructional Wrestling MMA Videos, Collegiate, Freestyle, UFC and Mixed Martial Arts Video | Kolat.com

YouTube - ‪Single Leg to Hip Toss KOLAT.COM Wrestling Techniques Moves Instruction‬‏ (Check out the other YouTube videos by Kolat in the sidebar. He is amazing.)

 

[fourfif**]

Thanks guys...Couple questions. Am I suppose to bend over or keep my back straight and if so which way do you mean back straight? At a 90 degree angle (horizontally) to them or vertically straight? What about head positioning to avoid the guillotine (MMA)?

Judo came more naturally. I can do pretty much all the nogi judo throws/trips. Now wrestling on the otherhand, doesn't come that way.

"Russian 2 on 1" is this aloud in folk-style wrestling?
THANKS AGAIN

Yup. Head up, back straight.

2on1 is allowed everywhere and in any grappling style.

 

[td82394]

Damn kids these days...

MMA =/= Wrestling

Although Tito does take some pretty good shots, I will say that.

I never had problems finishing a double leg as long as I could just get in, but I never knew how. I always asked questions, but I never got good answers, just cr*p ones like pop the head up or use footwork. I used to never even shoot at all, just slap the leg and push my opponent forward from the tie up and hope for the ref to give me a point because I made it look like the other guy was stalling.

Then, I asked Sherdoggers and one of them pointed me in the right direction with this video on YouTube called "Carl Adams Attacking the Head". Now if I can establish a dominant collar tie, I know I can take anybody down.