Social WR Lounge v252: Move to C T Pa Town?

Is gentrification bad?

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My girl Lindsay Ellis got cancelled recently for noting similar plots. She posted a movie sized video talking about it, pretty interesting to hear someone whose career largely revolves around being aware address "cancel culture". Thought about making a thread on it, but I'm not sure I should with how long the video is. I think both sides can find some interesting takes from it.


Discussing cancel culture is tricky because as a term it is so vague and has been used by truly awful people as a way to frame their rightful comeuppance as misplaced hysteria. Then there are cases like Dr. Seuss where you can still buy his books, and his publisher was the one who wanted to limit just a few of the least popular ones because they were racist. That's not being cancelled but conservatives still won't stop using it as a way to make themselves somehow being victims.

Having said that, the act of publicly ostracizing someone for making a harmless mistake is almost entirely counterproductive to liberal goals. There is too much absoluteness to the mind of person on the left. To me there will always be a growing process when you are trying to make yourself a better person. If someone is truly willing to learn and listen after using hurtful behavior or language then cutting them off from ever evolving is so self defeating.
 
Discussing cancel culture is tricky because as a term it is so vague and has been used by truly awful people as a way to frame their rightful comeuppance as misplaced hysteria. Then there are cases like Dr. Seuss where you can still buy his books, and his publisher was the one who wanted to limit just a few of the least popular ones because they were racist. That's not being cancelled but conservatives still won't stop using it as a way to make themselves somehow being victims.

Having said that, the act of publicly ostracizing someone for making a harmless mistake is almost entirely counterproductive to liberal goals. There is too much absoluteness to the mind of person on the left. To me there will always be a growing process when you are trying to make yourself a better person. If someone is truly willing to learn and listen after using hurtful behavior or language then cutting them off from ever evolving is so self defeating.
In this case what she said wasn't even a mistake. People read a racist intent in to it that sounds nothing like what she would say if you've ever listened to her. It just means all dialogue is limited and sanitized so that there's no chance someone can even make the attempt to read in to it. It really does everyone a disservice.
 
He's literally arguing about the production and distribution of goods lol.

Not in the broad sense of theory. He's talking about SLC's housing situation.


Geez if only there was some way we could somehow influence the supply of *checks notes* bricks, wood, and steel.

Two sides of the equation, people.

And you seem to have zero input on that. Just snap the ol' fingers? They make more land here in Hawaii, but it'll be awhile before anyone wants to buy it. Don't forget labor. If anyone can just build a house then maybe that's what the poor folks should do? Save a ton cutting out the middleman.


This is a genuine issue, but actually puts you on the same side as @Jack V Savage (excuse me for putting words in your mouth but pretty sure I'm right) vs. NIMBYs and zoning laws. Housing is the primary vehicle of wealth accumulation for the middle class in America (and Canada - god, so much in Canada), so overhauling/socializing the market probably isn't as politically viable as just adding to it.

If Jack agrees with me then great. But yeah, good luck getting everyone on board with using government to lower their property values.


And that means the solution is what? Maybe allow more supply, as I've been saying from the start?

He said it wasn't being constrained by the government.
 
And that means the solution is what? Maybe allow more supply, as I've been saying from the start?
But if that supply is more expensive that means the stuff I MIGHT be able to afford won't be vacated by the people currently living there cause guess what?... they can't afford the new supply either. So they just end up dying, the place gets sold off to a developer and now ANOTHER high rise is built that the middle income folks can't afford.

That's the problem Jack, the new supply is too expensive for most currenty buyers to upgrade TO and is way way too expensive for new home buyers to buy outright. So those are just being built for people that don't live here now or are moving into the area to work their cushy tech and banking jobs making way more than the people already living here make.

Guess I'll just move to fucking Morgan in the mountains and commute 3 hours a day for work since that's the only way I'll be able to buy anything.

The only decent option I have now is to try and find a way to get a loan for a 150k worth of land at Kimball Junction which is like... 5? miles away from Park City and sit on it and pray I can pay it off fast enough to either build on it or sell it at like 300% increase when Hollywood realizes they can't keep building mansions in Park City for Sundance and need something near by but also far away from the peons.
 
I think I did make that point somewhere , that while added housing will almost certainly reduce housing costs the timeline isn't something that inspires confidence in first time homebuyers like Greg.

Sure, not saying that the solution to the housing crisis is to focus on economic inequality but rather bringing it up to demonstrate how that fundamental problem in society relates to many, seemingly separate ones. So a free market in a relatively equitable society might allocate housing more effectively than one that has a lot of inequality which could enable opportunistic landlords.

The other free market issue is something that was brought up by @Andy Capp which is the attractiveness of short term rental properties. That doesn't apply to every city but it definitely does to ones attractive to tourists like New Orleans, NYC, Miami, SanFran, LA and so on.

To the first point, in a lot of places, supply isn't just a little short. More construction brings prices down a little and stops growth in prices, but observed amounts of new building haven't been enough to make a big dent in prices. We're kind of using a hose when we need a water blaster (and turning off the water would make things worse).

Most studies I've seen have shown very small effects of short-term rental properties. Negative, but not material. One that I didn't look into that deeply showed a pretty big effect.
 
The other free market issue is something that was brought up by @Andy Capp which is the attractiveness of short term rental properties. That doesn't apply to every city but it definitely does to ones attractive to tourists like New Orleans, NYC, Miami, SanFran, LA and so on.

Neighbor two doors down on one said bought the house on my other for rental value. The main house is AirBNB and the other structures are long-term renters. They got it covered form both ends.

Hard to blame people doing it. My first house was a duplex and it was nice having the tenant pay 2/3 of the mortgage (which was about the same as the rent we were paying before the landlord decided to sell it to us). People with no capital get stuck renting and the landlords make bank.
 
I remember when we were pals before he started ignoring me in Nov 2016. In one of the countless Jones vs Fedor threads I said Jones would win and that triggered Jack into saying "You're the worst poster here and stink up the joint. How are you not banned?!"
Well I mean I get that point of view. I don’t care for Jon Jones (or fedor) that much
 
Well I'm sold. Build more, more, MORE!

This might be impossible in places that are already very dense like Manhattan where that one skinny ass new apartment building starts at like $1m each unit. There's just no space to build anything. But in most other places, it could probably work.

Here in Houston, there are still lots of empty lots and unused spaces just within a couple miles' radius from downtown. And I got a feeling most cities in the south are in a similar situation.
I don't how important this really is but one thing to consider is that Americans have some of the largest average home sizes in the world. I think only Australia has larger homes than us(just imagine @Ruprecht in a palace and thinking its a normal house).

Bigger houses don't just take up more space but they also require more air conditioning which is the largest consumer of energy in any given household so larger houses are also less sustainable. You can get around that with passive heating/cooling but I imagine very few houses are built that way.

I wonder if that might be a fruitful sort of zoning law, something that mandates or at least incentivizes sustainable designs. On the surface that seems like more red tape that would block increased supply of housing but some cities have template houses which, if you decide to build them, offer expedited permitting. In the case I read it was multi-family housing so the purpose was to pump out units but you could take that approach and add a dimension of sustainability by making them multi-family, passively heated/cool templates
 
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Flexible universal rent control policies seem like the best solution to me. Property owners can't increase rent for an existing tenant beyond 2% year over year without applying to a government authority for an exemption. If you make tangible improvements to the facilities, you can only temporarily exceed the hike ceiling to recover 105% of the costs of improvement, etc.

Obviously, it will have a cooling effect on the sale of residential real estate and the investment in real estate generally, but I think it's worth it.

@Jack V Savage

That kind of stuff makes sense for existing contracts and old building substance. Whenever someone builds new or has a major do-over / renovation, you would have to account for that.

We have something like a rent registry. Statistically tracking how much rent people pay based on location / part of the city and quality of the apartment (simple/moderate/luxury). People should not exceed that by more than x%. The problem arises when formerly simple places are upgraded to be able to charge more and attract a different clientele. Here, we have had cities try to establish absurd rules mandating stuff like you cannot create a second bathroom, maximum tile size in bathrooms, etc.
 
African man shot in Hawaii. @Jesus H. Sherdog @Cubo de Sangre
Sounds like he was violent and on drugs but he was unarmed.

https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2021/...lly-injured-officer-involved-shooting-nuuanu/

HONOLULU, Hawaii (HawaiiNewsNow) - HPD Police Chief Susan Ballard said three police officers tried non-lethal force first, including by deploying a Taser, before fatally shooting a 29-year-old suspect multiple times in Nuuanu on Wednesday night who was repeatedly punching them.



The man had no weapons and no criminal record. When Ballard was asked whether the suspect reached for or grabbed one of the officers’ guns, she said that is still under investigation.



Ballard spoke Thursday morning, defending the officers’ actions and saying they all walked away from the incident with injuries. One of the police officers, the first on the scene, sustained multiple facial fractures and a concussion. He was last listed in stable condition, but remains hospitalized.



“This person seriously injured our officers and their lives were in jeopardy,” she said.



The suspect was identified by family as Lindani Myeni. His wife said they have two children together, and that he is originally from South Africa. They moved to the islands in January from the mainland.





The shooting happened about 8:10 p.m. Wednesday after police officers responded to a report of a burglary in progress at a Nuuanu home. The person who called 911 identified a man sitting in a vehicle nearby as the suspect and later told police that he had been exhibiting strange behavior.



“He walked into the house and he was just erratic, very odd behavior,” Ballard said, of the suspect.







“He sat down and took off his shoes and he was trying to talk to the people (homeowners) but they were very upset. He eventually walked out.”









Chief: Officers who fatally shot suspect in Nuuanu feared for the lives, deployed Taser first



Ballard said the first officer to arrive ordered the suspect to get on the ground.



Instead, she said, “The suspect charged at the officer, punching him several times.”



The second responding officer tried to intervene, while a third officer deployed a Taser. That Taser, Ballard said, didn’t stop the suspect. “Officer one then fired a single round,” she said, but the suspect “continued and straddled” another officer and that’s when “officer two” fired three rounds.



“This all happened in less that one minute,” Ballard said.



The suspect was taken to an area hospital in critical condition, and was later pronounced dead. The two other officers, Ballard said, sustained multiple bruises and abrasions to their arms and legs.



She said the officers who responded have 23, 18 and 10 years of service. They were all wearing body cams, Ballard said, and that footage will be part of the investigation.







Hawaii News Now has requested the video from the officers’ body cams and the 911 calls.



Meanwhile, toxicology reports on the suspect are not yet available.



When asked what HPD’s policy would be for an officer shooting a weapon in a case like this, Ballard said it isn’t “black and white.”



She said police “have to take into consideration the circumstances that are going on. It’s up to the officer’s discretion and being at the scene.”



Ballard noted that the suspect was Black, but added “this had nothing to do with race.”



“It had to do with behavior,” she said.



Police closed off Wyllie Street and Coelho Way as they investigated, but all roads have since reopened.







The incident comes nine days after police fatally shot a 16-year-old following a pursuit. The teenage driver was identified as Iremamber Sykap, of Aiea. Police said he was driving a stolen car linked to a days-long crime spree. HPD was pursuing the vehicle near Aina Haina before the shooting.



Sources said Sykap had more than 30 prior arrests. Three Honolulu police officers who discharged their weapons were put on administrative leave, which is standard protocol.



The investigation is still ongoing, and Ballard revealed nothing more publicly on Thursday.



There was also a deadly HPD shooting in late December in which Ballard said the 45-year-old suspect drove his car at officers at Ahuimanu Public Housing. Ballard said plainclothes officers were looking for the man in connection with a kidnapping case and to serve him with a warrant.



When they found him, Ballard said, they identified themselves and he fled on foot. The suspect, later identified as Caillen Paoakea Gentzler had 48 convictions, HPD said.



This story will be updated.
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I've learned ITT that if you want to make milk cheaper, the obvious thing to do is make dairy farms illegal. Supply restriction is the key to lowering prices. I'm going to make that point in all caps if you don't immediately agree.

For me, the key is to have a smart zoning policy and always mandate to have mixed housing. Never allow gated communities always mix in affordable apartments. Someone wants to build a house with 40 rental apartments? Mandate them to make 12 for social housing etc. - side effect is that you do not get so huge social issues by socially segregated areas.
 
This debate about gentrification has been interesting to read as someone who isn't smart enough to formulate a solid opinion either way. 8 pages and still going strong!

All you need to know is buy low and sell high, the timing of which is dictated by the market.
 
This debate about gentrification has been interesting to read as someone who isn't smart enough to formulate a solid opinion either way. 8 pages and still going strong!

At some point we need to realize gentrification and blighting are like the business cycle.... you can't stop it, you can just smooth out the ride....
 
African man shot in Hawaii. @Jesus H. Sherdog @Cubo de Sangre
Sounds like he was violent and on drugs but he was unarmed.

https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2021/...lly-injured-officer-involved-shooting-nuuanu/

Sounds like the guy did enough to deserve it, and that he was on drugs.


For me, the key is to have a smart zoning policy and always mandate to have mixed housing. Never allow gated communities always mix in affordable apartments. Someone wants to build a house with 40 rental apartments? Mandate them to make 12 for social housing etc. - side effect is that you do not get so huge social issues by socially segregated areas.

So no walls either?
 
For me, the key is to have a smart zoning policy and always mandate to have mixed housing. Never allow gated communities always mix in affordable apartments. Someone wants to build a house with 40 rental apartments? Mandate them to make 12 for social housing etc. - side effect is that you do not get so huge social issues by socially segregated areas.

Dude... we can't even stop local governments from mandating single home zoning and you think we can mandate mixed use spaces......
 
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