Social WR Lounge v252: Move to C T Pa Town?

[Jack V Savage]

Says the guy who just got called out for misrepresenting what Greg is saying.

Surely the real estate market in SLC is exactly the same as SF. Couldn't be they're in different stages of growth.

Called out. He doesn't have a coherent point, and I just made a joke.

Surely, the real-estate market of SLC being what it is doesn't mean that adding to supply increases prices.

 

[Andy Capp]

I wonder if the fundamental problem here is economic inequality in the sense that when new housing supply is generated, its those who are upper class, who already own homes, who are better able to buy up the houses either as investments or if they're really rich then as a second or third home. So when demand is driven by investors or buyers looking for a summer home more than first time buyers then the latter get priced out by the former.

If so then I don't think housing policy is itself is the solution, the solution would be to reduce economic inequality so there isn't as much of an imbalance between elites and the masses in terms of purchasing power in real estate.

But the inequality already exists so a more immediate solution is required.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

Many communities require a certain percentage of a new development be designated for affordable housing. I know other people/developers that have made good money building affordable housing. One instance, purchased a distressed motel and converted it to apartments for low income people. The guy has numerous similar places.

SLC is a nice town so I'm not surprised prices going up there. Lots of great outdoor activities near there and I would think the schools were pretty strong. Plus Utah is Pac 12 now so things are really looking up. Pac 12 had a dominate showing in men/women hoops this year.

@Gregolian is talking home-buying specifically.

 

[Gutter Chris]

HBK is the GOAT?

Yes. Best that's ever been in there. Never connected with another wrestler like I did him. I thought he was the cool rocker ...I thought he was justified in whopping marties ass for fuckin up . I rooted for him when he had sherry I went nuts for the boyhood dream. I was legit pissed he didn't beat the taker the first match and I damn near cried when he retired.

I've never enjoyed watching another wrestlers path more. Macho and hogan and what not were already made guys when I was old enough to remember. But hbk ... and the hitman though I don't like him as much I got to see the whole arc.

So in my humble opinion hbk is the goat due to me liking him more than all others by quite a wide margin

 

[Gregolian]

Called out. He doesn't have a coherent point, and I just made a joke.

Surely, the real-estate market of SLC being what it is doesn't mean that adding to supply increases prices.

I have made coherent points and addressed this another time with you which you, btw, fucking ignored like a goddamn coward.

Adding to supply doesn’t help when the additional stuff is more expensive and people selling are asking for at least double what they paid 20 years ago. Look at the post I had breaking down the median income level here then the price of houses from one home builder. Notice you never responded there.

If house prices increased 10% in a year and wages for at least public sector employees only improved 1.4% in the same time frame how the fuck are we supposed to afford anything? Those of us that are currently stuck renting? We have no means to pay for anything as rent is ALSO increasing.

 

[Lead]

The WR leveled up to housing policy. Don’t recall ever seeing people even say NIMBY here ever before the last month or so.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

Called out. He doesn't have a coherent point, and I just made a joke.

Surely, the real-estate market of SLC being what it is doesn't mean that adding to supply increases prices.

His point is all the new construction is out of the average person's price range. And the population's growing from transplants and in influx of business, which is pushing up prices across the board. So all that's left for Joe Public is the shitholes.

 

[Jack V Savage]

I have made coherent points and addressed this another time with you which you, btw, fucking ignored like a goddamn coward.

Your super scary arguments were just getting repeated. I don't think you made any point I haven't addressed.

Adding to supply doesn’t help when the additional stuff is more expensive and people selling are asking for at least double what they paid 20 years ago. Look at the post I had breaking down the median income level here then the price of houses from one home builder. Notice you never responded there.

Yes, of course adding to the supply helps. The existing stuff is going to be less expensive than it would be if there were no new supply. As I said, developers don't just charge whatever they want. There has to be a buyer willing to pay the price. You pointed out yourself that people were paying more than asking, which should tell you that the issue is not that prices are being set too high (they're being set too low, in fact), but that the market is super hot and there isn't enough supply to meet the demand.

If house prices increased 10% in a year and wages for at least public sector employees only improved 1.4% in the same time frame how the fuck are we supposed to afford anything?

Buy cheaper stuff. If supply were increased, you'd have more options.

 

[Andy Capp]

Called out. He doesn't have a coherent point, and I just made a joke.

Surely, the real-estate market of SLC being what it is doesn't mean that adding to supply increases prices.

OK, fuck it. I was resolved to quit wasting energy on this, but I have to point out yet again the disingenuous wordplay you are using here and if that doesn't shut you up I'm done regardless. The people you are arguing with are not saying one is the immediate and direct cause of the other. In the case of housing prices, there are a bunch of feedback processes that drive the power to set prices back into the hands of developers/landlords without regulatory intervention. It's not like that's a new concept.

Edit:
Nearly 1 Million NYC Rent-Stabilized Apartments Get Rent Freeze

 

[Gutter Chris]

Obviously dwaft hamsters are incredibly cute, just look at their popularity.

Ska?



HBK was incredible, definitely a case to be made for GOAT. Their are others in the conversation so its not clear.

1. G.I. Joe
2. Star Wars (never was my thing, still hispect)
3. Transformers
4. Ninja Turtles
5. Masters of the Universe

Ska rocks. Who's your fave ska band? Do you like any ?

Nothings cuter than a flying fox

Of course wrestling goat is objective and I new I would have folks disagree.

I don't mean toylines I mean specific figures.

Like gnawgahyde is the goat figure of all time.

Stinkor is second just for smelling that way.

I just loved heman rattler with the pop head.

93 snake eyes and 89 storm shadow then tye .....both were really cool

 

[Jack V Savage]

His point is all the new construction is out of the average person's price range. And the population's growing from transplants and in influx of business, which is pushing up prices across the board. So all that's left for Joe Public is the shitholes.

Sure. But if the new construction is sufficient to meet new demand, that at least keeps the prices of existing stock down. So it sounds like the problem is that people see new houses and then decide that their own houses aren't good enough? Policy can't fix that one, but I don't think people trying to drag down living standards should be given that much deference.

 

[Jack V Savage]

OK, fuck it. I was resolved to quit wasting energy on this, but I have to point out yet again the disingenuous wordplay you are using here and if that doesn't shut you up I'm done regardless. The people you are arguing with are not saying one is the immediate and direct cause of the other. In the case of housing prices, there are a bunch of feedback processes that drive the power to set prices back into the hands of developers/landlords without regulatory intervention. It's not like that's a new concept.

If you were pointing out disingenuous wordplay, you'd, like, point it out. "This thing you did that I'm listing is disingenuous wordplay." But of course there is none. What you're doing is just making a personal attack because you're frustrated about not having an intelligent response and unwilling to consider that you're wrong. I would recommend thinking more seriously about the issue to resolve that frustration.

 

[LMP]

Are you not entertained?

Honestly, I think this is arguably *the* most important issue (not just because millions of people could be lifted out of dire circumstances with no cost to anyone but parasitic landowners, but because sensible housing policy would have a large, positive environmental impact and would promote broader economic growth, which helps in a variety of other ways). Maybe I'm biased because when I actually witness true suffering, it's in the form of homelessness, and it pisses me off to see that in one of the richest parts of the world. And even moreso to see supposed lefties who are fighting to prevent the logical solution.

A conversation about how humans would handle the harsh ion radiation after we leave the earth's magnetosphere for space travel might be important too. The radiation the Nasa always talks about is the Van Allen Belts, but most of the solar radiation that we would face in space would be after we cross completely through the magnetosphere.

The satellites we have sent out have given us a great amount of information. Still their seems to be many hurdles for human deep space travel. It is interesting how some scientists seem to think we do not have the technology for human deep space travel, even though we have been to the moon.

 

[Gregolian]

Your super scary arguments were just getting repeated. I don't think you made any point I haven't addressed.

Sounds like something you do. Repeating arguments and not addressing anything. Sure you aren't talking about yourself idiota?

Yes, of course adding to the supply helps. The existing stuff is going to be less expensive than it would be if there were no new supply. As I said, developers don't just charge whatever they want. There has to be a buyer willing to pay the price. You pointed out yourself that people were paying more than asking, which should tell you that the issue is not that prices are being set too high (they're being set too low, in fact), but that the market is super hot and there isn't enough supply to meet the demand.

The existing stuff in a neighborhood doesn't go down when a development is built across the road of 750k homes. Now, the house that was built 20 years ago and sold for 250k is selling for 400k. Prices in housing only go up and wages aren't keeping up with it.

Buy cheaper stuff. If supply were increased, you'd have more options.

Oh yeah, buy a 150k condo and then have to spend almost 75k to replace everything that was broken in it like my coworker had to. Sorry, if my choices are fucking live in squalor and be able to enjoy myself outside my home or live someplace and be in debt till the day I die?.... I choose eating my fucking gun.

 

[sickc0d3r]

But does more construction actually prevent them getting priced out of that specific area? The added construction that is actually affordable could be built in a different part of town and the residents get priced out anyway.

I think that's the key part of the disagreement here, many people are skeptical that developers will want to build affordable housing and will instead prefer to build luxury housing. I would imagine that to some extent its kind of a folk belief that has some truth to it but is often exaggerated.

I guess it must depend on where you’re talking about. To borrow someone else’s point, a higher end builder like Toll Brothers doesn’t offer “affordable housing”, and any developer can buy up land they think will be valuable to their customer demo and then sit on it as they anticipate growth. That can’t happen in a population dense area, but somewhere like where Greg lives is very different.

By the way, I literally just typed Toll Brothers and within a few seconds got an email from Toll Brothers. Hadn’t even posted the reply yet. We are all doomed.

 

[Deorum]

HBK is the GOAT?

Yes. Best that's ever been in there. Never connected with another wrestler like I did him. I thought he was the cool rocker ...I thought he was justified in whopping marties ass for fuckin up . I rooted for him when he had sherry I went nuts for the boyhood dream. I was legit pissed he didn't beat the taker the first match and I damn near cried when he retired.

I've never enjoyed watching another wrestlers path more. Macho and hogan and what not were already made guys when I was old enough to remember. But hbk ... and the hitman though I don't like him as much I got to see the whole arc.

So in my humble opinion hbk is the goat due to me liking him more than all others by quite a wide margin

This was truly unbelievable and more than worthy of its 5-star rating, arguably the GOAT. The crazy thing is that a lot of people feel it isn't even his best match with the Undertaker. Some feel it isn't even his second best match with the Undertaker (!). He IS indeed the most talented performer in wrestling history IMO.

Spoiler: Still lmao though

Am I the only one who read this as a short joke? I was certain Rup was subtle clowning here. <45>

Gotta be like @Sara, slap a title together, make poll later, make the mods finish the op.

Apparently we set too high a bar for threads in the WR.

 

[CubicleGangster]

I just assumed that was the chicken option.

Well, that is what I voted for

 

[Gregolian]

I guess it must depend on where you’re talking about. To borrow someone else’s point, a higher end builder like Toll Brothers doesn’t offer “affordable housing”, and any developer can buy up land they think will be valuable to their customer demo and then sit on it as they anticipate growth. That can’t happen in a population dense area, but somewhere like where Greg lives is very different.

By the way, I literally just typed Toll Brothers and within a few seconds got an email from Toll Brothers. Hadn’t even posted the reply yet. We are all doomed.

None of the developers out here do.

Toll
Hamlet
Edge
Ivory

they’re the big 4 and you don’t see shit from them starting under 650 in new spots they’re working on. Even Holmes Homes which is more local doesn’t have affordable options.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

Sure. But if the new construction is sufficient to meet new demand, that at least keeps the prices of existing stock down. So it sounds like the problem is that people see new houses and then decide that their own houses aren't good enough? Policy can't fix that one, but I don't think people trying to drag down living standards should be given that much deference.

But it's not sufficient. Hence his complaint.

https://www.noradarealestate.com/blog/salt-lake-city-real-estate/

The pandemic has supercharged Utah’s housing market driven by historically low-interest rates and low unemployment rates. Utah housing market has been ranked as the nation’s #1 housing market for the strongest pace of job growth, along with low unemployment, low mortgage rates, few mortgage delinquencies, and low state & local taxes, according to Bankrate.com.

Salt Lake City is the largest city in the state of Utah, though it tends to be overlooked by real estate investors as just another part of a “flyover” country. The city is the core of the Salt Lake City metropolitan area, which has a population of roughly 1.2 million. Today, Salt Lake City is a major tourist spot in the U.S. The city is also the national hub of industrial banking.


The Salt Lake City real estate market has been one of the toughest real estate markets for Millennials due to limited supply relative to demand. It has become one of the top markets to watch in 2021. As we write this, the median sales price of homes in Salt Lake County is $395,000, which is +10.2% more than same time last year. The inventory has shrunk to an extremely low level and home prices in Salt Lake City are expected to rise by record levels in 2021. It would take less than three weeks for all the properties to dwindle from the market at the current pace of sales.

People are moving there due to the lower cost of housing, good quality of life, and outdoor recreation. The economy is strong and the city has one of the lowest unemployment rates in the nation. The median home price in “Salt Lake County” was $378,411 in 2020, a +10.5% increase from the previous year. Total home sales were up 5.5% as compared to 2019. A strong job market and a robust economy have been contributing to the rising housing costs over the past several years.

 

[My Spot]

Yes. Best that's ever been in there. Never connected with another wrestler like I did him. I thought he was the cool rocker ...I thought he was justified in whopping marties ass for fuckin up . I rooted for him when he had sherry I went nuts for the boyhood dream. I was legit pissed he didn't beat the taker the first match and I damn near cried when he retired.

I've never enjoyed watching another wrestlers path more. Macho and hogan and what not were already made guys when I was old enough to remember. But hbk ... and the hitman though I don't like him as much I got to see the whole arc.

So in my humble opinion hbk is the goat due to me liking him more than all others by quite a wide margin

Even Meltzer says it's Hogan though.