Wow, I got totally destroyed, I couldn't have been more wrong

[Luffy]

Khamzat Chimaev is an animal.... Like, I don't think Dricus was bad at all. Not in the sense that I think he underperformed. I just didn't imagine Khamzat Chimaev would come up with 4 lungs to this fight. He hadn't shown that vs Usman and Burns... He'd gass out somewhat by the third round and not be able to chain wrestle. It's said he broke his wrist vs Usman, but even still, he would shoot for TDs but without the same speed post round 1, which is conditioning based. DDP had a proven 5 rounds cardio, had gone through deep waters and hadn't gassed out in high pace fights like vs Sean and Adesanya.

Ofc there's the wrestling, which DDP hadn't faced before that much, but he is not bad at it, and he defended the first round like I thought he would. But then who'd think Khamzat would keep the same pace in the second, third, fourth, fifth?? He hadn't shown that before. With how it looked, it'd likely be 1 round burst then dipping cardio, shown in two fights that went to decision (which were 3 rounds btw). Keeping this same intensity wasn't expected. Even more when he is fighting less and less than before. But.... Yeah, I never imagined Chimaev would show up this wrestling intensity into the 3rd, 4th, 5th round vs someone who I thought wouldn't tap (which was very true) and that I knew had good ground defense despite not good TDD... And is strong and bigger than past opponents, mas well as a cardio machine... First round went like how i thought it would. Second too, perhaps (tho I thought it'd be already less dominant). From the third onwards, I was like "wut, is he still with this pace? How?"

I guess someone who brought up the new conditioning/cardio coach Khamzat has on his camp was right, his cardio was huge and... Unlike what I'd thought, he dominated DDP through the entire fight, not just 1 or 2 rounds... 5-0 .... It was as one sided of fight as it could, some judge even had it as 50-44.... I don't blame Dricus, but Khamzat is really something else. He's on another level...

 

[Ramon Antonio]

This didn't prove that he has insane cardio at all. He may have it, but this fight doesn't tell us that.

He fought at a much lower pace than he usually does and he was the one setting the pace. He also didn't have to work hard for the takedown at all.

 

[Luffy]

This didn't prove that he has insane cardio at all. He may have it, but this fight doesn't tell us that.

He fought at a much lower pace than he usually does and he was the one setting the pace. He also didn't have to work hard for the takedown at all.

Again, it did. Because keeping someone for 20+ minutes in the ground is cardio taxing. It's tough as fuck. The fact he could keep Dricus for 95% of the fight on the ground is proof of a relentless cardio

 

[Ramon Antonio]

Again, it did. Because keeping someone for 20+ minutes in the ground is cardio taxing. It's tough as fuck. The fact he could keep Dricus for 95% of the fight on the ground is proof of a relentless cardio

No he fought at a much lower pace than he usually does and he didn't have to fight hard for the takedown this fight. In other fights he sprinted, in this one he jogged.

 

[markantony20]

But how does this relate to Poatan

 

[Luffy]

No he fought at a much lower pace than he usually does and he didn't have to fight hard for the takedown this fight. In other fights he sprinted, in this one he jogged.

No, he fought like that in the later rounds. Not initially. But he was still keeping DDP down, punching him, knee'ing him. The referee stood them up sometimes when he shouldn't, as Khamzat was punching and was in dominant positions. He shouldn't have stranded them up. Like, Dricus was with his back on the mat. What happened later? Khamzat just went to the same thing and took him down.

Even at the last minute, Dricus managed to sprawl and be on top of Khamzat for some time... But Chimaev still had the ability and cardio to roll avoiding the guillotine and be on top of DDP to finish on top. That shows high level cardio. He won't have the same intensity in the last rounds as in the first, but the fact he was still taking Dricus down, keeping him there, had him 5x in a crucifix position, reverted the mount last 10 seconds, that's a conditioning above than that pace he had shown bs Usman.

Well, I guess Usman's takedown defense is better than DDP, ofc. But you notice that after the first round, Chimaev didn't shoot immediately, he went on to reset and strike with Usman. He saved takedowns for specific moments. Here, he was ragdolling DDP. That's tiring for the wrestler, to keep this pace. Because he went on full wrestling, DDP hadn't any time to breath for almost 25 minutes...

 

[Luffy]

But how does this relate to Poatan

When have I mentioned Pereira here?

 

[deanambrose]

Mods couldn't have been more wrong that you are not banned yet.

 

[Ramon Antonio]

No, he fought like that in the later rounds. Not initially. But he was still keeping DDP down, punching him, knee'ing him. The referee stood them up sometimes when he shouldn't, as Khamzat was punching and was in dominant positions. He shouldn't have stranded them up. Like, Dricus was with his back on the mat. What happened later? Khamzat just went to the same thing and took him down.

Even at the last minute, Dricus managed to sprawl and be on top of Khamzat for some time... But Chimaev still had the ability and cardio to roll avoiding the guillotine and be on top of DDP to finish on top. That shows high level cardio. He won't have the same intensity in the last rounds as in the first, but the fact he was still taking Dricus down, keeping him there, had him 5x in a crucifix position, reverted the mount last 10 seconds, that's a conditioning above than that pace he had shown bs Usman.

Well, I guess Usman's takedown defense is better than DDP, ofc. But you notice that after the first round, Chimaev didn't shoot immediately, he went on to reset and strike with Usman. He saved takedowns for specific moments. Here, he was ragdolling DDP. That's tiring for the wrestler, to keep this pace. Because he went on full wrestling, DDP hadn't any time to breath for almost 25 minutes...

Honestly sounds like you've never done any sports yourself.

You get exhausted when you sprint or when your opponent pushes a pace that you have to keep up with that's higher than your own. When you're the one in full control of the pace doing the style that's most favorable to you, it's way less exhausting. Not a hard concept to grasp. He didn't go for any hard punches, he didn't really squeeze hard on any chokes, he didn't get punched etc.

He had to work way harder against Burns and Usman due to them offering more resistance and Khamzat pushing a faster pace.

 

[Luffy]

Honestly sounds like you've never done any sports yourself.

You get exhausted when you sprint or when your opponent pushes a pace that you have to keep up with that's higher than your own. When you're the one in full control of the pace doing the style that's most favorable to you, it's way less exhausting. Not a hard concept to grasp. He didn't go for any hard punches, he didn't really squeeze hard on any chokes, he didn't get punched etc.

He had to work way harder against Burns and Usman due to them offering more resistance and Khamzat pushing a faster pace.

Yes, like I've said in the other thread, I'll repeat it here:


"" I guess though might have overrated DDP's cardio? Because he has been on 5 rounds fights, yes. He has proven a high level cardio, yes. But not against someone that is a chain wrestler. So if Chimaev's output drops, so doesn't DDP's when needing to be actively defending on the ground submission threats, when Chimaev was landing knees to the body, elbows to the body. It all saps energy too. So... DDP had a proven cardio but not vs someone trying to take him down many times... Which is a different thing.

I should have accounted for that, that Khamzat would lower his pace but so would Dricus as he hasn't been in those situation if needing to stop takedowns, getting taken down at will, needing to stop submissions threats...

I looked at the Usman fight as a baseline because Usman stopped the first round while being on the ground the entire time and almost finished. He didn't offer a threat in resisting the takedown that much. And in the second round, Chimaev wasn't wrestling, he was striking vs a very good striker until he picked when to shoot, in specific moments. I guess that speaks for Usman's condition in situations of wrestling — he has a huge solid TDD, so Chimaev knew that the energy spent on taking Usman down is way more taxing. With DDP, taking him down was easy... While DDP survived many times there, his cardio was also being sapped while on bottom. So I was wrong in that not having a good TDD but a solid ground defense would work, when actually... That lack of TDD was the thing that made Khamzat play with him, as it was so easy to take him down, that the energy he'd spend wouldn't be that big vs the energy DDP was spending in fighting on the bottom not to be finished. When someone has a good TDD, not just a good ground defense and jiu jitsu, then that's trickier as the energy to take that person down is tax
ing.""

So you don't need to be edgy when commenting, look at my other answers. Turn it down.

 

[Dacha]

DDP helped him with that, by standing in crucifix like it is 50/50 position.

i bet he will drill for days crucifix escape, or at least i would if i was in his place.

 

[Luffy]

Mods couldn't have been more wrong that you are not banned yet.

I guess you're speaking about yourself? Because how is that related to the thread? Please, stop flaming, that's worth banning. Being wrong and admitting so, acknowledging I was clueless on this one, is not worth being banned, it means I'm still learning.

And I'd edit the OP too. This comment I made in another thread for the dude with the Chimaev's avatar sums up my current thought/learning:

NEW PERSPECTIVE:

"" I guess though I might have overrated DDP's cardio in some ways? Because he has been in 5 rounds fights, yes. He has proven a high level cardio, yes. But not against someone that is a chain wrestler. So if Chimaev's output drops, so does DDP's when needing to be actively defending on the ground submission threats, when Chimaev was landing knees to the body, elbows to the body. It all saps energy too. So... DDP had a proven cardio but not vs someone trying to take him down many times and needing to be defending himself in positions he wasn't used to in a actual shown official fight... Which is a different thing.

I should have accounted for that, that Khamzat would lower his pace, but so would Dricus as he hasn't been in those situation — needing to stop takedowns, getting taken down at will, needing to stop submissions threats...

I looked at the Usman fight as a baseline because Usman stopped the first round sub while being on the ground the entire time and almost finished. He didn't offer a big threat in resisting the takedown that much (tho more than DDP, yes). And in the second round, Chimaev wasn't wrestling, he was striking vs a very good striker until he picked when to shoot, in specific moments. I guess that speaks for Usman's conditioning in situations of wrestling — he's a good wrestler, has a huge solid TDD... so Chimaev knew that the energy spent on taking Usman down is way more taxing to be shooting takedowns at will. With DDP, taking him down was easy... While DDP survived many times there on bottom position, his cardio was also being sapped while on bottom. So I was wrong, in that not having a good TDD but a solid ground defense would work, when actually... That lack of TDD was the thing that made Khamzat play with him, as it was so easy to take him down, that the energy he'd spend wouldn't be that big vs the energy DDP was spending when fighting off bottom position, to not be finished. When someone has a good TDD, not just a good ground defense and jiu jitsu expertise, then that's trickier as the energy to take that person down is taxing"" "

Again tho, Chimaev is still a monster because it's not easy to keep DDP down for that long. But it was still a wrestling fight pretty much so..... Yeah, it was in his area of control all along.

 

[Ramon Antonio]

Yes, like I've said in the other thread, I'll repeat it here:


"" I guess though might have overrated DDP's cardio? Because he has been on 5 rounds fights, yes. He has proven a high level cardio, yes. But not against someone that is a chain wrestler. So if Chimaev's output drops, so doesn't DDP's when needing to be actively defending on the ground submission threats, when Chimaev was landing knees to the body, elbows to the body. It all saps energy too. So... DDP had a proven cardio but not vs someone trying to take him down many times... Which is a different thing.

I should have accounted for that, that Khamzat would lower his pace but so would Dricus as he hasn't been in those situation if needing to stop takedowns, getting taken down at will, needing to stop submissions threats...

I looked at the Usman fight as a baseline because Usman stopped the first round while being on the ground the entire time and almost finished. He didn't offer a threat in resisting the takedown that much. And in the second round, Chimaev wasn't wrestling, he was striking vs a very good striker until he picked when to shoot, in specific moments. I guess that speaks for Usman's condition in situations of wrestling — he has a huge solid TDD, so Chimaev knew that the energy spent on taking Usman down is way more taxing. With DDP, taking him down was easy... While DDP survived many times there, his cardio was also being sapped while on bottom. So I was wrong in that not having a good TDD but a solid ground defense would work, when actually... That lack of TDD was the thing that made Khamzat play with him, as it was so easy to take him down, that the energy he'd spend wouldn't be that big vs the energy DDP was spending in fighting on the bottom not to be finished. When someone has a good TDD, not just a good ground defense and jiu jitsu, then that's trickier as the energy to take that person down is tax
ing.""

So you don't need to be edgy when commenting, look at my other answers. Turn it down.

Well if you workout yourself you know how much of a difference pace makes. You'll also realize how specific cardio is as well.

To state that Khamzat has some godlike cardio after a fight where he set the pace, went slower than usual, took zero damage and fought only in the style that he favors is simply illogical.

Usman made him work A LOT harder for the take down. Just rewatch that first round:

 

[Luffy]

Well if you workout yourself you know how much of a difference pace makes. You'll also realize how specific cardio is as well.

To state that Khamzat has some godlike cardio after a fight where he set the pace, went slower than usual, took zero damage and fought only in the style that he favors is simply illogical.

Usman made him work A LOT harder for the take down. Just rewatch that first round:

I do work out. But thank you for assuming anyways (wrong tho)

Btw, we are talking about two different things, I feel... pace vs capacity.
Khamzat fought at a lower, more controlling pace here, but he also held that pace for 25 minutes without his form falling apart. That’s actually a good cardio for the demanded time he needed...

... Saying “DDP had no TDD” isn’t so much relevant to it either when I think about it in what we are discussing, as defense isn’t just sprawling. If the defender doesn’t force scrambles or mat returns, the wrestler’s heart rate stays lower, so it looks slower. Want to quantify it? Count # of entries —> rides, mat returns, and stand. ups each round... Low numbers there + steady posture = efficient cardio, not a gas tank < before. It's more controlled, but it required more gas tank still to keep that over 5 rounds than a higher round 1 intensity... Intensity/tempo # cardio when that's a 5 rounds fight with the intensity kept steady throughout still...

I expected DDP would build base more often and Khamzat's entries would get slower. Both are spending energy there, but Khamzat managed to do that over 25 minutes... While landing 500+ strikes bs what, 20 from DDP. That's a big cardio lol he doesn't need to be going full sprint in 5 minutes, but going in a high sprint over 25 minutes is still hard and if we can quantify it like I said, that requires more stamina actually. Which can be true, Khamzat's stamina maybe have gotten better + I thought DDP would stand up more so he could strike on breaks to sap Khamzat's energy too...

 

[KO Shotz]

This didn't prove that he has insane cardio at all. He may have it, but this fight doesn't tell us that.

He fought at a much lower pace than he usually does and he was the one setting the pace. He also didn't have to work hard for the takedown at all.

I disagree. Chimaev was able to keep a suffocating & manhandling pace for 25 minutes last night with ease. That takes a gas tank.

 

[Ramon Antonio]

I do work out. But thank you for assuming anyways (wrong tho)

Btw, we are talking about two different things, I feel... pace vs capacity.
Khamzat fought at a lower, more controlling pace here, but he also held that pace for 25 minutes without his form falling apart. That’s actually a good cardio for the demanded time he needed...

... Saying “DDP had no TDD” isn’t so much relevant to it either when I think about it in what we are discussing, as defense isn’t just sprawling. If the defender doesn’t force scrambles or mat returns, the wrestler’s heart rate stays lower, so it looks slower. Want to quantify it? Count # of entries —> rides, mat returns, and stand. ups each round... Low numbers there + steady posture = efficient cardio, not a gas tank < before. It's more controlled, but it required more gas tank still to keep that over 5 rounds than a higher round 1 intensity... Intensity/tempo # cardio when that's a 5 rounds fight with the intensity kept steady throughout still...

I expected DDP would build base more often and Khamzat's entries would get slower. Both are spending energy there, but Khamzat managed to do that over 25 minutes... While landing 500+ strikes bs what, 20 from DDP. That's a big cardio lol he doesn't need to be going full sprint in 5 minutes, but going in a high sprint over 25 minutes is still hard and if we can quantify it like I said, that requires more stamina actually. Which can be true, Khamzat's stamina maybe have gotten better + I thought DDP would stand up more so he could strike on breaks to sap Khamzat's energy too...

Going full sprint for 5 minutes and then having to do 20 more minutes is way harder than 25 minutes at 70 percent effort. It’s not linear at all. The closer to max effort the quicker you burn out and once you burn out it’s very hard to recover, which is why he seemed relatively tired on some of his 3 round fights.

450 insignificant “strikes” with zero power is also not that tiring. Throwing hard shots takes much more conditioning. And again, he was the one deciding the tempo and he never had to put his foot on the gas, he took zero damage and it was all in his world. He cruised to victory.

It was impressive but not due to his conditioning.

 

[BEATDOWNS]

I'll be having Crow for breakfast, lunch and dinner today.

 

[Blastbeat]

sometimes it be like that
i thought Khamzat would get tired after round 3 - but no, it seems he has vastly improved his gas tank
or maybe its because he doesnt have to cut down to welterweight anymore

 

[Ramon Antonio]

I disagree. Chimaev was able to keep a suffocating & manhandling pace for 25 minutes last night with ease. That takes a gas tank.

He was the one deciding the pace and met very little resistance. Obviously he has decent cardio but it wasn’t out of this world or very special like a Merab for example. The pace and intensity of that fight were very low.

 

[HHJ]

Khamzat def paced himself. His trainers were very smart.

but i still do believe his conditioning was still on point. He looked like he could do a few more rounds.