Would you put jones above Gsp and say he's the goat if he didn't popped for steroid??

[FrodoFraggins]

Did you see his performance against OSP when he was supposedly clean ? .... it was embarrassing

Ring rust is a real thing, but yeah that was suspicious.

 

[steny]

He wouldn't have popped if he didn't take PEDS and if he didn't take them he wouldn't be as good as he was.

So NO.

 

[JfPuffNStuff]

I would of said Jones but since he popped multiple times and is a scumbag, I never will. I honestly don’t ever care to see him fight again and if he does I hope he gets brutally KO’d. GSP is the GOAT at this point.

 

[Oooxente]

Losses:
Gsp: 2
Jones : 1(0 if you don't that)

Winner: jones

Top wins:
Jones: Gus,Dc(x2),glover,machida,Evans,vitor,shogun,rampage,bader,osp
Gsp: jake shield, Hughes x2,alves,condit,koscheck x2,bisping,nick Diaz,Hendricks,bj penn x2,fitch

Gus > condit.
Bj penn > Dc
Machida > Diaz
Alves = broken hand vitor
Koscheck > evans
Shogun >bisping
Fitch >osp (I know they fight nothing alike)
Hendricks > rampage
Jake shield?? Hughes?? Glover??

Winner: tie?Gsp?
Title defenses:
Gsp:9
Jones:9

Winner: tie

Extra:
Multi division champ: gsp
Jones finished opponents more

Had he not dirtied his own legacy so many times?
Yes,
His resume would be definitely more impressive the George’s BUT he got USADAd enough times put everything he did in doubt.

So dream as much as you can Georges is STILL the UFC GOAT.

Edit.
Tell me TS had Ben Johnson never got caught in the 88 and kept his record would consider him BETTER the Carl Lewis???

 

[MMAandBOXINGfan]

They were all 205 so throw that size advantage stuff out, nobody is built like the next guy. Every fight will have one fighter having some kind of advantage over the other, be it size, skill or even ring iq.

Rampage was in great shape.
Rashad looked awesome.
Bonnar was as good as he's ever been.
Vitor wasn't fully transformed by trt but he looked great as well and almost won that fight.
Sonnen- I'll give you that
Machida was still a killer.
Glover was unbeaten in years.
Bader was on a tear.
Dc was definitely at his best.
Osp- ill give you that.
Gus has never looked better.
Shogun was the champion.
Matuchenko was even decent then too.


Now remember all these guys with the exception of Gus were absolutely destroyed.

They are not always the same size on fight night man you should know this not to mention Jones is a lot longer than all those guys. Only dude he was about the same size as beat the shit out of him and sent him to the hospital.

Rampage was not the best Rampage
Rashad who knows what goes on in his head sometimes
Bonnar was a good win at the time Jones looked awesome
Vitor lol he was not at his best dont even
Sonnen sucks
Machida is always dangerous but he was a lot smaller
Glover was a good win but he wasnt exactly a young guy anymore
Badar sucks lol
DC is right there with Jones
OSP isnt anything great
Gus i think could have gotten the decison ( wasnt a robbery coulda gone either way and the fight that i gained respect for jones for toughing it out)
Shogun was not the best Shogun
Matuchenko nothing great but a good win for a young up and comer.

 

[juncito]

They are not always the same size on fight night man you should know this not to mention Jones is a lot longer than all those guys. Only dude he was about the same size as beat the shit out of him and sent him to the hospital.

Rampage was not the best Rampage
Rashad who knows what goes on in his head sometimes
Bonnar was a good win at the time Jones looked awesome
Vitor lol he was not at his best dont even
Sonnen sucks
Machida is always dangerous but he was a lot smaller
Glover was a good win but he wasnt exactly a young guy anymore
Badar sucks lol
DC is right there with Jones
OSP isnt anything great
Gus i think could have gotten the decison ( wasnt a robbery coulda gone either way and the fight that i gained respect for jones for toughing it out)
Shogun was not the best Shogun
Matuchenko nothing great but a good win for a young up and comer.

Of course fighters rehydrate differently but my point was, if you're 205 you're 205. Because if we play that game then Rampage had a weight and power advantage, machida had a speed advantage etc. We also know Rampage was in Denver for that fight training his ass off and even a prime Rampage lost to Forrest due to a strategy involving kicking his legs. That's something Rampage complained about after that fight with Jones.

You can't discredit Shogun either, he just took out Machida and liddell in devastating fashion and it can be argued he won the first match with Machida as well. Don't really want to go over all the guys again but we both know not one of the guys on that list were over the hill when Jones got a hold of them.

Still though, I like the respectful back and forth.

 

[Sunken]

G O A T

 

[ThunderStruck]

Koshcheck > Evans?
Hendricks > Rampage?

Those guys in their prime are far greater wins than a washed up rampage yeah.

 

[Judoka1532]

Losses:
Gsp: 2
Jones : 1(0 if you don't that)

Winner: jones

Top wins:
Jones: Gus,Dc(x2),glover,machida,Evans,vitor,shogun,rampage,bader,osp
Gsp: jake shield, Hughes x2,alves,condit,koscheck x2,bisping,nick Diaz,Hendricks,bj penn x2,fitch

Gus > condit.
Bj penn > Dc
Machida > Diaz
Alves = broken hand vitor
Koscheck > evans
Shogun >bisping
Fitch >osp (I know they fight nothing alike)
Hendricks > rampage
Jake shield?? Hughes?? Glover??

Winner: tie?Gsp?
Title defenses:
Gsp:9
Jones:9

Winner: tie

Extra:
Multi division champ: gsp
Jones finished opponents more

Based on accomplishment I have to go with GSP. He's fought more, stayed consistent for a very long time. Jones has just not fought enough to take the goat status from gsp. That said, a humble Jon Jones has potential to be the GOAT no doubt. However, I feel when he comes back from that suspension he's just going to be a shadow of what he once was. Too many young guys coming up through the ranks that are going to surpass jones at 34

 

[Newave]

People are quick to say Jones because of his finishes and no real loses, but the finishes were in the early part of his title run, he started getting mostly decisions after the Chael fight. And it’s very arguable that GSP had tougher competition. Jones first 5 title defenses were against guys well past their prime or guys whose frames were small enough that they had either fought middle weight in the past (Vitor, Chael) or went on to fight middle weight in the future (Rashad, Machida). GSP fought Hendricks, Fitch, Koshcheck and Alves when they were all in their prime. And even Hughes wasn’t too far past his prime when GSP fought him. Besides a loss to BJ Penn, Hughes hadnt lost a fight in five years when GSP beat him.

 

[Wicked_1]

I would say let's give Jones a few years or more and see what happens. Can't be greatest of all time yet, but I do think he is more impressive than gsp. And pretty sure gsp roided out, but didn't get caught.. Kinda retired right when the testing process got real. Not trying to single him out, as all fighters have done roids at one time. Jones probably just got bad advice from coaches and got caught. If Jones comes back and continues to dominate .. He may reach goat level. I don't like the eye pokes or dirty fighting really either.

 

[MMAandBOXINGfan]

Of course fighters rehydrate differently but my point was, if you're 205 you're 205. Because if we play that game then Rampage had a weight and power advantage, machida had a speed advantage etc. We also know Rampage was in Denver for that fight training his ass off and even a prime Rampage lost to Forrest due to a strategy involving kicking his legs. That's something Rampage complained about after that fight with Jones.

You can't discredit Shogun either, he just took out Machida and liddell in devastating fashion and it can be argued he won the first match with Machida as well. Don't really want to go over all the guys again but we both know not one of the guys on that list were over the hill when Jones got a hold of them.

Still though, I like the respectful back and forth.

jones still had a size advantage vs machida, thats what did machida in plus the strength. Rampage was not the best version of Rampage anyone that has ever seen rampage fight knows this. What i am trying to get you to understand is Jones did not fight these guys when they were at their very best. Maybe the closest woulda been Machida who was 33. I thought machida coulda won because of the speed and striking, but jones was quite a bit bigger than him. Shogun was not the Shogun that everyone grew to know and love. He never really mached his Pride performances in the ufc. Sure he knocked machida out but machida didnt fight like machida in the 2nd fight. He was rushing shogun the way he normally wouldnt. A way to describe what im trying to say i guess is with what just happend recently... Halloway beating Aldo and Ortega beating Frankie. Not many would say Frankie or Aldo would lose to Ortega or halloway a few years earlier. Max and Ortega seem pretty awesome right now but anyone that has been following this sport cant honestly not wonder how these fights woulda gone had Edgar and Aldo been 5 years younger. You know what I mean?

 

[SuperNerd]

It's an easy argument for JJ. He was fighting older stars and his division hasn't improved significantly. Jones could have coasted through this division.

 

[Evangelion]

I would say let's give Jones a few years or more and see what happens. Can't be greatest of all time yet, but I do think he is more impressive than gsp. And pretty sure gsp roided out, but didn't get caught.. Kinda retired right when the testing process got real. Not trying to single him out, as all fighters have done roids at one time. Jones probably just got bad advice from coaches and got caught. If Jones comes back and continues to dominate .. He may reach goat level. I don't like the eye pokes or dirty fighting really either.

Lol yes every single fighter has done roids.

Also wtf at not being a fan of eye pokes but juicing to the gills, that's Allright

 

[Mark]

No.

 

[juncito]

jones still had a size advantage vs machida, thats what did machida in plus the strength. Rampage was not the best version of Rampage anyone that has ever seen rampage fight knows this. What i am trying to get you to understand is Jones did not fight these guys when they were at their very best. Maybe the closest woulda been Machida who was 33. I thought machida coulda won because of the speed and striking, but jones was quite a bit bigger than him. Shogun was not the Shogun that everyone grew to know and love. He never really mached his Pride performances in the ufc. Sure he knocked machida out but machida didnt fight like machida in the 2nd fight. He was rushing shogun the way he normally wouldnt. A way to describe what im trying to say i guess is with what just happend recently... Halloway beating Aldo and Ortega beating Frankie. Not many would say Frankie or Aldo would lose to Ortega or halloway a few years earlier. Max and Ortega seem pretty awesome right now but anyone that has been following this sport cant honestly not wonder how these fights woulda gone had Edgar and Aldo been 5 years younger. You know what I mean?

I get exactly what you're saying and I agree to an extent. I really feel you can't use size as an advantage when they both choose the weight class and make the weight. Machida was even smaller than weidman if we take it there. But I can agree some of the guys weren't "prime" but he didn't face a shot version if them either. The only fight I could see going differently if said fighter was prime is the Rampage fight, I feel his wrestling would have been more of a factor and if juanito was still with him his boxing would have been better as well. We could say shogun but look how easy mark colman got shogun down and in the mat is where jones really put a number on shogun.

I think our conversation helps jones as far as the op though, because while jones opponents may have been older, they were more established and more technically proficient than their past selves. While gsp was fighting a generation of up and comers who had nowhere near the experience of gsp and he was in his physical prime. So gsp was never at a disadvantage in skill, experience or age.

 

[Ruthless_swag]

Losses:
Gsp: 2
Jones : 1(0 if you don't that)

Winner: jones

Top wins:
Jones: Gus,Dc(x2),glover,machida,Evans,vitor,shogun,rampage,bader,osp
Gsp: jake shield, Hughes x2,alves,condit,koscheck x2,bisping,nick Diaz,Hendricks,bj penn x2,fitch

Gus > condit.
Bj penn > Dc
Machida > Diaz
Alves = broken hand vitor
Koscheck > evans
Shogun >bisping
Fitch >osp (I know they fight nothing alike)
Hendricks > rampage
Jake shield?? Hughes?? Glover??

Winner: tie?Gsp?
Title defenses:
Gsp:9
Jones:9

Winner: tie

Extra:
Multi division champ: gsp
Jones finished opponents more

I hate jones cause of his personality but had he been clean throughtout his mma career, hell yea. He is the GOAT. Best fighter of all time. No doubt. 100% legend. DC would be second but jones isnt clean so....? Dc on roids vs jones on roids would be an evem fight.

 

[juncito]

GSP's UFC fights:

GSP's 6th fight overall - Parisyan's 13 <<<<<
7th - Hieron's 5th
8th - Hughes' 41st <<<<<
9th - Strasser's 31st <<<<<
10th - Miller's 15th <<<<<
11th - Trigg's 16th <<<<<
12th - Sherk's 33rd <<<<<
13th - Penn's 14th <<<<<
14th - Hughes' 46th <<<<<
15th - Serra's 14th
16th - Koscheck's 11th
17th - Hughes' 48th <<<<<
18th - Serra's 15th (Serra didn't fight between the 2 GSP fights)
19th - Fitch's 20th <<<<<
20th - Penn's 17th
21st - Alves' 23rd <<<<<
22nd - Hardy's 25th <<<<<
23rd - Koscheck's 20th
24th - Shields' 30th <<<<<
25th - Condit's 34th <<<<<
26th - Diaz's 34th <<<<<
27th - Hendricks' 17th
28th - Bisping's 38th <<<<<

16 of GSP's UFC opponents had more experience, while 7 didn't. And GSP's opponents had better records, and were in the deepest division, than Jones' opponents.

GSP didn't have a consistent age advantage either. Other than the old guard he beat coming up, his title run was full of guys +/-2 years of his own age (Bisping is <3 years older than GSP as is Penn - Hughes, Trigg and Sherk though are all about 8 years older)

But you're right when you say he did have a skill advantage.

You just had to and bring facts into this didn't you? Lol thanks for the correction though, I still "feel" like gsp was more experienced than those guys even with the proof he wasn't right i front of me.

I guess I'll go with more complete from now on.

I can agree on ww being deeper but a lot of those guys maneuvered around each other en route to face gsp. Hendricks and koscheck fought the killers in the division though.

 

[juncito]

Alves went through Karo>Hughes>Koscheck to get a TS. Hughes, Penn, Diaz, Condit, Shields, Sherk, Hendricks etc. all had proven themselves prior to fighting GSP.

About the only 2 you could say had an "easy" path to GSP was Fitch (if you can call 18-2 "easy") and Hardy (but at that time he was the only one GSP hadn't beaten and the Strikeforce guys hadn't moved over yet).

After the Hardy fight Strikeforce ended and GSP beat 2 Strikeforce Champs (Shield and Diaz) and a former WEC Champ (Condit) in his next 3 title defenses.

 

[Echo_Bliss]

Assuming NO steroids ever, I would still have to consider all his dirty techs. Imagine if EVERY ref deducted a point for EVERY eye poke, EVERY illegal strike, etc. No hard or soft warnings, just straight up point deduction. Guys like Jones wouldn't be safe no more. Would that cause him to become a losing fighter? If he could still win, and no roids, he's GOAT. My guess is, he's exposed by a strict rule enforcer.