Would you pay fighters directly rather than the UFC?

[elwani]

Odd question to ask on Sherdog as 90% of members stream PPV events illegally (And most of them brag about it)...

Yes, but I'm curious even if you stream, would you consider paying the fighters you like just a buck or two for their fight if there was a way to do it directly and knowing that the fighter gets every dollar?

 

[TheAmericanGazelle]

Yes, I agree that infrastructure, marketing, etc. has value, but 90% of the value? In the NFL players are guaranteed 47% of the revenue, NBA 49-51%, NHL 50%. What I take exception to is Dana and WME screwing the fighters so bad.

You and like minded people should start a competing MMA organization and show the big boys how you can quadruple/quintuple fighter pay and still be competitive in the market.

 

[Dirge]

Yes, but I'm curious even if you stream, would you consider paying the fighters you like just a buck or two for their fight if there was a way to do it directly and knowing that the fighter gets every dollar?

As a person that has always paid for every event i watch and having attended probably 3 dozen live events over the years if there was a way to ensure that the fighters were being paid directly, I would favor it but there is simply no way you could create a mechanism that would make it work.

How do you ensure the PPV provider gets its cut for example?

Sounds like a nice idea but frankly, its impossible to implement.

 

[IsNormal]

Honestly - if there was a donate-button for a main event fight I would subconsciously think to myself "These guys are already paid pretty well. I don't need to donate to anyone who already makes more than the average salary".

Just being honest, not saying it's right.
(It's not even something I would apply to all areas of my life. I might buy shit as a way of funding a band which makes way more money)

 

[elwani]

No, this is just like tipping. It's not my responsibility to cover a business owner's employees wages.

(Yes I tip before the tipping people inevitably freakout, the essentially mandatory premise itself is dumb though)

It is and it isn't. There's actually an active debate going on about whether tipping at restaurants should be made illegal. But if it was, then the price you pay for food would increase by about 20% and the owners would be required to pay that additional revenue to servers.

That's different from this case because suppose the choice was between tipping the fighters directly or paying the UFC instead. If you paid the UFC, the UFC keeps 90% of the money rather than giving it to the fighter. It would be like if they implemented a law banning tips, then you pay the restaurant owner $20 more for your food, but the owner keeps $18 of the extra money you pay and the servers' salaries only increase by $2.

 

[elwani]

You and like minded people should start a competing MMA organization and show the big boys how you can quadruple/quintuple fighter pay and still be competitive in the market.

What do you think I have, Fertita money?

 

[maxi diablo]

No, this is just like tipping. It's not my responsibility to cover a business owner's employees wages.

(Yes I tip before the tipping people inevitably freakout, the essentially mandatory premise itself is dumb though)

Yup, it's usually just an American thing.

 

[elwani]

As a person that has always paid for every event i watch and having attended probably 3 dozen live events over the years if there was a way to ensure that the fighters were being paid directly, I would favor it but there is simply no way you could create a mechanism that would make it work.

How do you ensure the PPV provider gets its cut for example?

Sounds like a nice idea but frankly, its impossible to implement.

I guess I'm imagining the two systems existing in parallel. You can choose to spend your money on PPVs and live events as you do now, but you can also choose to pay fighters directly if you want.

 

[elwani]

Honestly - if there was a donate-button for a main event fight I would subconsciously think to myself "These guys are already paid pretty well. I don't need to donate to anyone who already makes more than the average salary".

Just being honest, not saying it's right.
(It's not even something I would apply to all areas of my life. I might buy shit as a way of funding a band which makes way more money)

That's all I was hoping to get, people's honest opinions.

 

[Numtums]

Would happily donate $59.95 this weekend to a gofundme page for Gus and the others to not turn up and screw the card.
Fuck Jon Jones.

 

[TheAmericanGazelle]

I would personally prefer to take my extra money and donate it to one of the charities I support (which are focused on helping unfortunate people), rather than stealing PPVs and throwing a few bones to further support someone who has already made a voluntary exchange.

That’s just me. YMMV.

 

[elwani]

I would personally prefer to take my extra money and donate it to one of the charities I support (which are focused on helping unfortunate people), rather than stealing PPVs and throwing a few bones to further support someone who has already made a voluntary exchange.

That’s just me. YMMV.

Are you Dana?

 

[Genisys]

The fighters would be lost without the organization backing the event. It costs a lot of money and takes a lot of expertise to put on a high quality production like the UFC does. The fighters fight and get paid what they're worth to the organization. There are plenty of fighters that got rich from fighting in a cage. Considering what they would probably be doing if they weren't fighting in the UFC, I think they are well compensated. You shouldn't make a million dollars just because you're willing to fight. You put butts in seats and you will be compensated.

 

[TheAmericanGazelle]

Are you Dana?

No.

That’s why I’m encouraging you and similar people to show the big boys how you can pay several multiples of the market rate for labor and still dominate the market.

It’s bizarre no one with say...Mark Cuban or Donald Trump money has stepped in to fill that gap and failure yet.

After all, all they need to do is lay and chill in their office and exploit fighters to be successful right?

 

[Fatality]

It is and it isn't. There's actually an active debate going on about whether tipping at restaurants would be outlawed. But if it was, then the price you pay for food would increase by about 20% and the owners would be required to pay that actual revenue to servers.

That's different from this case because suppose the choice was between tipping the fighters directly or paying the UFC instead. If you paid the UFC, the UFC keeps 90% of the money rather than giving it to the fighter. It would be like if they implemented a law banning tips, then you pay the restaurant owner 20% more for the food, but the owner keeps 18% of the extra money you pay and the servers' salaries only increase by 2%.

This 90% figure you keep spouting is utter horse shit.

The PPV/media providers take 30-45%(depending on the platform) off the top. Then the UFC pays all the promotion, venue, personnel and logistics costs. No idea what the percentages are for those costs but you can bet your ass they are significant. And let's not forget the fact that as a business you need assets to operate and grow so you can stay in business to put on future events.

You clearly know nothing about operating a promotional business. There is a very good reason why few are successful. Giving the fighters a substantially larger slice of the pie sounds great but it isn't sustainable and the promotion goes under. The UFC gives its fighters the highest payouts on average in mma because it is a proven successful brand that knows how to leverage its success to keep the machine running when things don't go to plan.

 

[IsNormal]

Why not a pay by fight option where 50%-90% of the money goes to the fighters? So instead of paying $60 for 5 fights I can pay $15 per one i want to see.

1. The UFC wouldn't see much value in offering anything where they got a lower cut. I don't really think that would be something that would have a mass market appeal anyway. They would get a little bit of cred from hardcore fans, but most fans probably don't care where their money goes to. If there was a $15 deal, the UFC could probably take their usual cut, and sell roughly the same amount as if they took a lower cut - most customers would probably just buy because of the price and not where the money went to.

2. The UFC would hate to see current $60 paying customers turn into $15 paying customers.
I think a lot of viewers really only care about the main event, and maybe the co-main.
By offering single fights the UFC would devalue their core product.
They would lose a lot of leverage to sell entire cards to TV-networks and other stuff that they are planning
Seems like so much of the UFC is built around the idea of having one card where expensive high profile talent is bundled with cheaper low profile talent.

Sure, they would also gain a lot of new customers. People who currently refuse to pay $60 for any stream.
But if very hard to know how big that market is and they wouldn't risk devaluing their core full-card-product to find out.

By having more fans watching the main events only we would also have a problem with more and more fans losing interest in the lesser known fighters, which means it would be harder to build new stars for the future. That's one of the benefits when you 'force' people to watch an entire card.

 

[WingsLax9042]

TipAFighter.com

 

[TRYHARD 2001]

Odd question to ask on Sherdog as 90% of members stream PPV events illegally (And most of them brag about it)...

I think a lot more people hit up the PirateBay the day after so they can avoid the WMMA and FLW division fights and cut directly to the fights they want to watch. Not saying I do that or anything, but...

Don't look at me like that! I pay for my Fightpass!

 

[justbetter]

I buy off fightpass so I know all the money goes to UFC and cuts out the cable guy

 

[elwani]

This 90% figure you keep spouting is utter horse shit.

The PPV/media providers take 30-45%(depending on the platform) off the top. Then the UFC pays all the promotion, venue, personnel and logistics costs. No idea what the percentages are for those costs but you can bet your ass they are significant. And let's not forget the fact that as a business you need assets to operate and grow so you can stay in business to put on future events.

You clearly know nothing about operating a promotional business. There is a very good reason why few are successful. Giving the fighters a substantially larger slice of the pie sounds great but it isn't sustainable and the promotion goes under. The UFC gives its fighters the highest payouts on average in mma because it is a proven successful brand that knows how to leverage its success to keep the machine running when things don't go to plan.

Well no one is debating whether the UFC has costs and whether the promotion, broadcasting, etc. has value and cost. It's obvious they do add value and there is cost. The debate is about whether the revenue generated by the UFC is split between the UFC and fighters in a way that would be considered fair, say relative to other sports who also add value and have costs for promotion, broadcasting, etc. If it was indeed 90% UFC and 10% fighters, compared to 50% in most other major sports, you might say it's unfair and therefore prefer an alternative avenue to fund fighters directly.

UFC is a private business so no one knows for sure, but you can make educated estimates based publicly available information, and that is indeed what the 90% figure is based on [Source] [Source]. Also just by common sense, by the lack of bargaining power fighters have in MMA compared to other sports, you would also guess that the split is rather uneven.

You say the UFC has costs and adds value. That's obvious and no one is even debating that. Do you actually have some information that makes you think the revenue split isn't 90% UFC 10% fighters or that perhaps the promotional costs of the UFC are higher than other sports? Perhaps you have some additional promotional expertise or inside information on the UFC that we don't have? If so please share, or learn how to make a cogent argument and STFU.