Work out times too long

[Phlog]

So my issue as I've got into heavier lifts is that it takes that much longer.

My deadlift set up is warming up with 50%x8, 65%x6, 80%x4 then 100% of my first set x a few before my first set. Then it's, for example today in my progression:

55% 1rm x 5
62.5% x 5
67.5% x 10 for 3 sets.

Then the same for military press and that's like two exercises that's taken me 2hrs at least. My cardio is good, recovery is good, I'm waiting until my HR is back to normal ish, maybe 5min breaks max. Deadlift 1RM is 297kg.

It's kinda killing me that I can't get other stuff in. It takes 3hrs to feel like I've done everything I need to. Can anyone relate or have a comment?

Is this just something I have to accept?

 

[Oblivian]

I literally lift almost every day because of this. One main lift and a few assistance lifts. A deadlift or squat session will average 30-45 minutes at least.

 

[Poon Goon]

I don't lift anywhere near your deadlift max so maybe things are different for me. I also don't have a heart rate monitor and have never learned about benefits of waiting until my heart rate is back to normal to do another set.

I typically don't really rest between warm up sets other than the time it takes to add weight. On my working sets the app I track in has a timer, but I don't use it as an indicator for rest time. I just pace around until my breathing returns to normal and I feel ready. This usually takes about two minutes.

Average day on my current program calls for two bench sessions separated by a squat session. Each of the three takes me 30-40 minutes to complete. Then I'll hit a handful of accessories and be done in a total time of a little over two hours.

 

[vision1]

So my issue as I've got into heavier lifts is that it takes that much longer.

My deadlift set up is warming up with 50%x8, 65%x6, 80%x4 then 100% of my first set x a few before my first set. Then it's, for example today in my progression:

55% 1rm x 5
62.5% x 5
67.5% x 10 for 3 sets.

Then the same for military press and that's like two exercises that's taken me 2hrs at least. My cardio is good, recovery is good, I'm waiting until my HR is back to normal ish, maybe 5min breaks max. Deadlift 1RM is 297kg.

It's kinda killing me that I can't get other stuff in. It takes 3hrs to feel like I've done everything I need to. Can anyone relate or have a comment?

Is this just something I have to accept?

Are you sure your cardio and recovery is good? What's your baseline HR and how long does it take to reach after a set?
You warm-up seems excessive unless I'm misunderstanding. You should be able to go 60kg, 100kg, 140kg in under 5 minutes and then onto the work sets. 3 minutes rest between each of the working sets and you're done deadlifts in roughly 40 minutes.

My workouts are typically in the 90 minute range and I think I'm slow.

 

[ChickenBrother]

I'm smaller and weaker than you TS but when I've been focused on powerlifting doing 5x5 and variations, I got to the point of needing to rest about 5 minutes between sets, with squats being particularly brutal. So the workout would take about 2.5 hours. I definitely could have gotten stronger had I continued to train like that, but that's the point I decided the juice wasn't worth the squeeze because it was compromising my other training and was too much of a time suck, both workouts and recovery time between workouts. I added back cardio and grappling and went down to two barbell sessions/week with sets of 5 or 3 reps and 2-3 min rest between sets. I'm not as strong as I used to be, but now I finish my strength workouts in less than an hour and I'm still "strong enough" for combat sports with decent cardio. And instead of sitting between sets, I now walk around so I get some low intensity cardio during rest breaks.

 

[StonedLemur]

So my issue as I've got into heavier lifts is that it takes that much longer.

My deadlift set up is warming up with 50%x8, 65%x6, 80%x4 then 100% of my first set x a few before my first set. Then it's, for example today in my progression:

55% 1rm x 5
62.5% x 5
67.5% x 10 for 3 sets.

Then the same for military press and that's like two exercises that's taken me 2hrs at least. My cardio is good, recovery is good, I'm waiting until my HR is back to normal ish, maybe 5min breaks max. Deadlift 1RM is 297kg.

It's kinda killing me that I can't get other stuff in. It takes 3hrs to feel like I've done everything I need to. Can anyone relate or have a comment?

Is this just something I have to accept?

No pics of the chiseled Bis Tris or Glutes?
Im outta here lol

 

[Thepaintbucket]

I mean if you can deadlift 650 lbs, I'm not sure what any of us can offer you. I don't need to tell you deadlifting can be very taxing. The only answer is to reduce your military presses and keep your intensity with deadlifting

 

[Phlog]

@Oblivion ikr. I just don't have the 2hrs on Mon, Tue, Thur, Fri anymore. And I'm fitting in cardio high intensity which kills a day near enough at the moment. Two heavy sessions of squat push pull, or deadlift press pull up and a vanity isolation exercises session are all I can really manage.

@Poon Goon yeah the idea is that ones absolute best is available for the main lifts of the session. What you want most progress on you train in peak performance. That means you get the best motor neurone recruitment in that movement at that rep range and weight. I superset my accessories and have only short rests for that. it's annoying I can't be doing split squats, leg press, ham curls, ankle mobility etc etc. I only train back specifically like once, 3 sets a week beyond deadlifts.

@vision1 my RHR is in the 40s, am training HIIT twice a week on my rogue echo V3 bike

I think you're right about the warm ups. But I'm old , but I agree it's excessive. I'll get more business and see if that helps.

@ChickenBrother that's kinda the problem. Have to fit in all the zone 2 cardio, 2 HIIT sessions, fencing practice, 2-3 lifting sessions, job, family, friends .pffffff I feel ya. I'm 45 but still getting stronger and want to see how far I can get but have to balance with everything. Primarily with football (off season now), I'm coming to the end of that and have to work pretty hard to stay relevant.

@Thepaintbucket that is a negatory space marine, max force production from feet to hands is a non negotiable component of manliness!

 

[Smato_rules]

It’s really cool how active you are with a family and in your 40s. Only thing I can say is maybe try one lift a day and one top set, Paul horn has an interesting book with pretty quick workouts. Another option could be Dan John’s easy strength, my es workouts would take me 20 minutes top

 

[JimRussel]

Workouts that involve lifting really heavy stuff with the intention of getting stronger take a long time.

If you can't effectively reduce rest times and still meet the demands of you're program, you're kind of stuck. You could change your programming to better suit your workout length desire, but then you'd likely be compromising on your strength progression.

There is no perfect answer, but yeah, being strong usually means long workouts.

 

[maximus__]

So my issue as I've got into heavier lifts is that it takes that much longer.

My deadlift set up is warming up with 50%x8, 65%x6, 80%x4 then 100% of my first set x a few before my first set. Then it's, for example today in my progression:

55% 1rm x 5
62.5% x 5
67.5% x 10 for 3 sets.

Then the same for military press and that's like two exercises that's taken me 2hrs at least. My cardio is good, recovery is good, I'm waiting until my HR is back to normal ish, maybe 5min breaks max. Deadlift 1RM is 297kg.

It's kinda killing me that I can't get other stuff in. It takes 3hrs to feel like I've done everything I need to. Can anyone relate or have a comment?

Is this just something I have to accept?

My training has started to go a bit longer as I started moving heavy weights again but nowhere near two hours.
Have you considered using assistance work as your warmup?

Put together 2-3 exercises that cover your weak points for the deadlift and work through them one after another with a short break(60 secs) for 3 or so rounds.
Then work through your main exercises
Then if you have the energy/time add some heavier assistance work.

I also don't generally do long rests between warm up sets. I just rest enough to change plates, do some mobility work and go.

You might see a drop initially, but eventually your body will adjust and you will be able to work through things with shorter rest, more work prior.

 

[Baby Hanma]

So my issue as I've got into heavier lifts is that it takes that much longer.

My deadlift set up is warming up with 50%x8, 65%x6, 80%x4 then 100% of my first set x a few before my first set. Then it's, for example today in my progression:

55% 1rm x 5
62.5% x 5
67.5% x 10 for 3 sets.

Then the same for military press and that's like two exercises that's taken me 2hrs at least. My cardio is good, recovery is good, I'm waiting until my HR is back to normal ish, maybe 5min breaks max. Deadlift 1RM is 297kg.

It's kinda killing me that I can't get other stuff in. It takes 3hrs to feel like I've done everything I need to. Can anyone relate or have a comment?

Is this just something I have to accept?

I would comment, but your deadlift is like 650 pounds. Who am I to give you advice?

I guess if I was permitted, I'd simply say... Yeah, you'll just have to accept it. Strength training sessions generally take a while to finish because of the necessary long rest periods. Not to mention the pre and post mental hell in the workouts that you have to deal with. I literally take a full, sometimes beyond, thirty minutes of relaxing and mental preparation in the gym before starting the workout. I imagine most powerlifters and Olympic lifters are the same way.

 

[zapataxiv]

i cant track down the exact vid but i remember seeing Brian Alsruhe talkign about this one of the reasons why he likes to do giant sets because sitting around for so long between lifts kills him. SO he does these giant sets where he does his main lift and then a bunch of other work

chime in brothers anybody else doing that type of approach

 

[Baby Hanma]

i cant track down the exact vid but i remember seeing Brian Alsruhe talkign about this one of the reasons why he likes to do giant sets because sitting around for so long between lifts kills him. SO he does these giant sets where he does his main lift and then a bunch of other work

chime in brothers anybody else doing that type of approach

The dude is strong, but it doesn't mean that giant sets are optimal.

I am sure when he is doing his main heavy stuff, he separates them from his giant sets. So heavy squat, and then giant-set a bunch of slightly trivial exercises for hypertrophy. That's the only optimal way to do it.

 

[DEVILsSON]

You will have to compromise or take gear. Lifting heavy requires longer rest periods. Getting older requires longer rest periods and more time to recuperate. I am 42 so I know I can't do nearly as much as I used to 20 years ago. I can be in the gym for three hours if I want to but I can't even if I wanted to.

While most beginners are pushed into heavy compound lifts, as you get more and more advanced you need to prioritize certain lifts or goals.

You may want to deadlift more infrequently and do other lifts which are less taxing on the body.

Maybe you can do a lighter variation (romanian, dimel, stiff legged, deficit, partials etc) for high reps with straps.

Maybe you can do heavy back extensions or hip raises.

I hardly ever deadlifted more than once every few weeks. Every time I did it would destroy my CNS, muscles, etc and I'd need at least a few weeks if not a couple months to recover.

The same applies to other taxing lifts like squats or any other exercise where you're pushing heavy weights.

TLDR:

Use less taxing exercises or variations, do exercises for higher reps, or use more lighter isolation exercises or machines.

 

[maximus__]

i cant track down the exact vid but i remember seeing Brian Alsruhe talkign about this one of the reasons why he likes to do giant sets because sitting around for so long between lifts kills him. SO he does these giant sets where he does his main lift and then a bunch of other work

chime in brothers anybody else doing that type of approach

I don't do giant sets, but my assistance work is usually supersetted in some way. I still try and keep my rest periods to 2-3 mins for my main exercises.
In the past I used to do my main strength work in a circuit type fashion to maximise rest.

E.g
Back squat
Benchpress
Weighted Pullup
with 2 mins rest between exercises, for 3-5 rounds.

I had my rack set up for squatting on one side, benchpress on the other and then did pullups nearby.
It basically means I get 6 mins full rest per exercises, but every 2 mins I am doing a work set of one of the above exercises.
I was easily able to get a fullbody 5x5 in within 40 mins and then had 10 mins each side for a warmup and short conditioning or carries session.

The same would work for Deadlifts and OHP in TS case, but with a shorter rest unless they want to add a third exercise in. Or just go to 3 mins between.
Again you might get a drop initially as you adjust to more density in the session, but it evens out pretty quick as work capacity improves.

 

[Phlog]

So I have followed some of the advise in here and am down to 2hrs, including shower at least on squat day. Deadlift day will have to wait till maybe Saturday and that will be a real tell.

My squat is below my ability at the moment as I work on a new squat position (heel elevated, knees out) so it's not as taxing as the deadlift. I'm trying to get my quads and lower hamstrings more active.

I shortened my warm ups and focused on recovery between sets using breathing tech and calming internal thoughts, remaining standing but still.

After the squats (resting back to HR 80) I hit everything else in circuit training, 1min max rest.

It meant I could fit in
Squats 5x10
Mil press 5x10
Ham curls 3x20
Leg extension 3x20
Pull-ups 3x12

Ideally I'd like to have fit in some more shoulder and some biceps, some jumps before hand and a couple more sets in the leg extensions. I just can't ever feel my quads, it's wild. But at least I feel like I'm hitting the basic needs I have at the moment.

 

[maximus__]

So I have followed some of the advise in here and am down to 2hrs, including shower at least on squat day. Deadlift day will have to wait till maybe Saturday and that will be a real tell.

My squat is below my ability at the moment as I work on a new squat position (heel elevated, knees out) so it's not as taxing as the deadlift. I'm trying to get my quads and lower hamstrings more active.

I shortened my warm ups and focused on recovery between sets using breathing tech and calming internal thoughts, remaining standing but still.

After the squats (resting back to HR 80) I hit everything else in circuit training, 1min max rest.

It meant I could fit in
Squats 5x10
Mil press 5x10
Ham curls 3x20
Leg extension 3x20
Pull-ups 3x12

Ideally I'd like to have fit in some more shoulder and some biceps, some jumps before hand and a couple more sets in the leg extensions. I just can't ever feel my quads, it's wild. But at least I feel like I'm hitting the basic needs I have at the moment.

Can I ask why you are trying to get your HR back to 80?
I have done cardio based sessions where I have rested until I was able to return to a certain HR, but as far as I know it means nothing for lifting.

 

[Phlog]

Can I ask why you are trying to get your HR back to 80?
I have done cardio based sessions where I have rested until I was able to return to a certain HR, but as far as I know it means nothing for lifting.

I find that if my heart rate is like 120 for a lift I'll miss out on the last couple of reps, specifically when I'm working the volume part of my program for main lifts.

My theory is just that the heart rate reflects the demand of the muscles. If the heart rate is high the muscles haven't replenished as much as they could. I think about 50% max HR is reasonable.

So I end up lifting more, with better form with a faster application of force.

 

[maximus__]

I find that if my heart rate is like 120 for a lift I'll miss out on the last couple of reps, specifically when I'm working the volume part of my program for main lifts.

My theory is just that the heart rate reflects the demand of the muscles. If the heart rate is high the muscles haven't replenished as much as they could. I think about 50% max HR is reasonable.

So I end up lifting more, with better form with a faster application of force.

80 seems very low though. I wouldn't consider myself warmed up enough at that HR and every set would feel like my first set. My resting HR is low 50s currently but usually in the high 40s.

I have heard of weight training like this before but they were going to 100bpm as the recommendation or basically easy warm up HR. That's what I have done for intervals before also.
That way you still stay warm, your body is aware that work still needs to be done and if your aerobic system is good, you get there within a min or 2 in most cases.

In the end it's what works for you, but I would feel like I was just doing warmups all session and never feel like I was actually able to get going.