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[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

?

Liston's reach has always been BS. A thread was made about it just last month. Lewis appears to have a real 84" reach or close to it. Liston's has changed from one fight to the next and against Ali his arms actually looked shorter.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Ali himself knew Liston's reach was ridiculously inflated. The following is from his autobiography.

“Whenever he got within range, I reached out and put my hand on his head. My arms were longer than his, and I knew he couldn’t hit me as long as I kept him an arms length away.” (Ali, 1975, p. 119)

 

[defjaam]

Liston's reach has always been BS. A thread was made about it just last month. Lewis appears to have a real 84" reach or close to it. Liston's has changed from one fight to the next and against Ali his arms actually looked shorter.

I never thought about questioning his reach. But considering that his best positioning at inflicting pain was mid-range, it probably would have been a disadvantage to have Go-Go Gadget arms.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

I never thought about questioning his reach. But considering that his best positioning at inflicting pain was mid-range, it probably would have been a disadvantage to have Go-Go Gadget arms.

The tale of the tape for the Martin fight listed his reach at 80½" but for other fights, like against Patterson and on BoxRec, he's listed at 84”.

Meanwhile Ali is only listed at 78” on BoxRec despite having noticeably longer arms. Enough of a reach advantage for Ali to place his glove on Liston's head and keep him at arms length as he said in his autobiography. In reality, if we assume that Ali's reach is accurate, then Liston only would've had somewhere between a 74”–76” reach tops. That's a far cry from 80½”–84”. For comparison Fury's reach is listed at 85” but Emanuel Steward claimed that it was even longer than that.

 

[Intermission]

Reach is a combination of shoulder width and arm length, and so just because a fighter has shorter arms that doesn't mean he has an inferior reach .

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Reach is a combination of shoulder width and arm length, and so just because a fighter has shorter arms that doesn't mean he has an inferior reach .

Reach is a measure of wingspan across the chest in boxing & MMA. Ali said it himself, his arms were longer. That's usable reach and he almost certainly had the greater wingspan as well.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Reach​

“A boxer's reach is the distance between the fingertips of the outstretched arms.”

There's a strong correlation between height & reach but that's well-known. Some fighters have longer reaches than they typically should have for their height. The UFC uses a metric based on this called the Ape Index.

 

[mozfonky]

There's an easy explanation for some of those head-scratching picks. Bias. Floyd has never really liked Mike Tyson or Ali for that matter. He does like Joshua and has offered to work with him before.

he's seemed not to favor the great black fighters, there's his top ten list with latino's filling in most of the spots. He's already spoken ill of Ali and Robinson.

Also, how could i forget that weird little anecdote in Tyson's bio where an unnamed fighter rumored to be Floyd try to set Mike up for rape. Self hatred is a real thing.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

he's seemed not to favor the great black fighters, there's his top ten list with latino's filling in most of the spots. He's already spoken ill of Ali and Robinson.

Also, how could i forget that weird little anecdote in Tyson's bio where an unnamed fighter rumored to be Floyd try to set Mike up for rape. Self hatred is a real thing.

Yeah I've noticed that myself about Floyd. In a recent interview he said that Terence Crawford is his P4P #1 fighter in the sport today and that black fighters should stick together. Yet as you noted he doesn't seem to be very supportive of them in the all-time rankings debate. I have heard him knock Ali & Robinson before. I'm sure there's been others.

 

[mozfonky]

Yeah I've noticed that myself about Floyd. In a recent interview he said that Terence Crawford is his P4P #1 fighter in the sport today and that black fighters should stick together. Yet as you noted he doesn't seem to be very supportive of them in the all-time rankings debate. I have heard him knock Ali & Robinson before. I'm sure there's been others.

Mike just calls him an insecure little man, which is about right. Roy Jones refuses to even rank him because of his disrespect of Ali. Floyd doesn't seem to care how bad his running down icons made him look.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Mike just calls him an insecure little man, which is about right. Roy Jones refuses to even rank him because of his disrespect of Ali. Floyd doesn't seem to care how bad his running down icons made him look.

He is insecure and seems to be conflicted. Mike once pretended like he was going to deck Floyd. To Floyd's credit though he didn't even flinch.

 

[mozfonky]

He is insecure and seems to be conflicted. Mike once pretended like he was going to deck Floyd. To Floyd's credit though he didn't even flinch.

really?

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

really?

 

[Blastbeat]

He is insecure and seems to be conflicted. Mike once pretended like he was going to deck Floyd. To Floyd's credit though he didn't even flinch.

maybe there's a part of him that took all the criticism that people have of his record to heart.
even though Tyson and Roy Jones may have looked to avoid or age out opponents; Floyd's literally known for that. known for waiting on matchups until he felt they became favorable. known for controversial judges decisions that always seemed to go in his favor.
when you bring up Tyson or Roy Jones to boxing fans, what reactions do you get? in my experience, its nearly universally positive (when talking about their boxing careers). when you bring up Floyd? there's always someone saying "yeah he's great but......" and then bringing up an opponent or fight or decision that was controversial.
having your legacy constantly questioned more than other great fighters must take a mental toll. didnt Mike Tyson say something along the lines of "yeah he may be rich but he cant even walk his kids to the bus stop" or something to that effect? Floyd isn't a peoples' champion, i think thats what he was implying. all the gold and all the belts cant replace people liking you.

 

[Intermission]

Reach​

“A boxer's reach is the distance between the fingertips of the outstretched arms.”

There's a strong correlation between height & reach but that's well-known. Some fighters have longer reaches than they typically should have for their height. The UFC uses a metric based on this called the Ape Index.

And Liston had very long fingers

 

[Intermission]

Most great fighters have extreme ape index but one of the very best does not..

His name

Roy Jones jr

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

maybe there's a part of him that took all the criticism that people have of his record to heart.
even though Tyson and Roy Jones may have looked to avoid or age out opponents; Floyd's literally known for that. known for waiting on matchups until he felt they became favorable. known for controversial judges decisions that always seemed to go in his favor.
when you bring up Tyson or Roy Jones to boxing fans, what reactions do you get? in my experience, its nearly universally positive (when talking about their boxing careers). when you bring up Floyd? there's always someone saying "yeah he's great but......" and then bringing up an opponent or fight or decision that was controversial.
having your legacy constantly questioned more than other great fighters must take a mental toll. didnt Mike Tyson say something along the lines of "yeah he may be rich but he cant even walk his kids to the bus stop" or something to that effect? Floyd isn't a peoples' champion, i think thats what he was implying. all the gold and all the belts cant replace people liking you.

Yeah. I think I remember the bus stop line by Mike. Funny shit.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

And Liston had very long fingers

Not long enough to explain the difference. It also doesn't explain how his reach shrank 4 inches for the Martin fight but somehow grew by that amount against Patterson.

 

[Intermission]

Not long enough to explain the difference. It also doesn't explain how his reach shrank 4 inches for the Martin fight but somehow grew by that amount against Patterson.

Yeah it was incorrect. They also changed around how big his fists were

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Yeah it was incorrect. They also changed around how big his fists were

The UFC does that type of thing. Shane Carwin was listed at 6'5 in some of his fights, 6'3, and even as short as 6'2 in others. Carwin himself says he's 6'1. He somehow managed to "cut" height is the running joke that's been going on for years in the MMA community.