Wing Chun vs BJJ

[KarateStylist]

FighterTwister

BTW, I didn't know you were such a kung fu enthusiast.

The kung fu's as a traditional martial arts style group are much stronger than the traditional karates (all styles including Okinawan).

The reason arises out of the base strengths. The kung fu's engage & develop body mind & spirit on a higher plane. Karate relies more on the physical dimension.

Your reference as to why there aren't more kung fu stylist's in MMA as an indication of it's strength or efficacy then surprises me. The way I judge this is to drive over to one of the kung fu schools and train. I had an open invitation to train at one, northern style, but it eventually closed. The head was a very competent and skilled guy. I & karate could never beat him in a million years.

He was constantly after me to train Tai chi... that's a challenge I passed on.

 

[KarateStylist]

BTW Frode, Ramsey Dewey's background is a amateur / pro kickboxer. He doesn't know anything about the traditional martial arts. MMA, IMO he knows. He does interact with TMA stylists.

These MMA videos start out with the suppositions like the rules matter. The capability of an art isn't defined or 'ruled' by the rules. Hackleman's one of my fav MMA trainer yet he's another kenpo expert who doesn't know what kenpo karate is. Just like Mike Winkeljohn, etc. etc.

These video make for good learning and testing examples but they are so often incompetent because just as here, the practitioner's say an art is defined by sparring or safety rules or conventions /or/ someone's particular demo of some technique.

These presentations can readily descend into forum fodder.

ADD: I agree 100% with Ramsey saying Hackleman's YT Channel is vastly under-rated, for MMA.

 

[KarateStylist]

I love John Hackleman as an MMA trainer. Another MMA coach I would think more competitors would utilize but dont. Maybe Ramsey gives us a hint, entertainment quotient.

The way I resolve this issue, which of course cuts a lot the forum chatter short so antithetical to a forum, is to separate out the ruleset issue first.

When @ my first TMA school not to long, the UFC was going strong, I asked the head instructor what do you do if a wrestler goes for takedown, a low one at your shins or ankles.

This instructor wasn't one to go on like we do on forums. He answered question with basically brief explanations. But he always had an intelligent answer. Not the only answer, an intelligent answer. I was asking 'casue you know we have this whole catalogue of techniques in the TMA's.

His answer to the wrestler going low for the take down was: DO THIS.

 

[KarateStylist]

THE PROBLEM WITH JOHN HACKLEMAN ISN'T HIS MMA ACUMEN, IT'S MARKETING.

The OP video is an attempt by John to just do that. But let's take the other side of the coin which none other than FighterTwister posed to me. That the MMA scene require more rounded training / cross training such as incorporation the nuances of karate. A valid statement. But like the video, is the the only theoretical construct to success in MMA, it's conventional mindset?

Let's look at a recent MMA contest of {quote} high level fighters {quote}. One an experienced vet, the other a most promising up& comer media all proclaming. Here' the MMA highlight.
UFC on ESPN+ 10 matchmaker: Who’s next for Rafael dos Anjos after win over Kevin Lee?
270,906 views


MMA Junkie
Published on May 19, 2019
MMA junkie's Mike Bohn plays matchmaker and looks ahead to what makes sense for Rafael dos Anjos in this edition of "Sean Shelby's Shoes."

Kevin Lee, the most promising up&comer schooled by the vet. BJJ vs. wrestling? Maybe. I say the over-riding factor was skill. Including RDA's comportment of composure & focus under fire. Lee's good. He's got good MMA striking IMO. In MMA parlance, he got outworked by RDA.

Lee trains @ Xtreme Couture. Randy Couture of MMA fame, like all the MMA proponents say train with the 'big name.' Randy all kind of wrestling credentials and a GNP win over Chuck Liddell, etc. Big Names mean NOTHING, 'cause your in there Kevin against RDA, not the marquee. Only skill can take out a vet like RDA. That would be my 'Game plan."

All that Xtreme grappling training with the Xtreme marquee rubbing off by osmosis doesn't work. Method is what matters. Method is what does matter, in the ring, in the dojo, in the street.

 

[Frode Falch]

BTW Frode, Ramsey Dewey's background is a amateur / pro kickboxer. He doesn't know anything about the traditional martial arts. MMA, IMO he knows. He does interact with TMA stylists.

These MMA videos start out with the suppositions like the rules matter. The capability of an art isn't defined or 'ruled' by the rules. Hackleman's one of my fav MMA trainer yet he's another kenpo expert who doesn't know what kenpo karate is. Just like Mike Winkeljohn, etc. etc.

These video make for good learning and testing examples but they are so often incompetent because just as here, the practitioner's say an art is defined by sparring or safety rules or conventions /or/ someone's particular demo of some technique.

These presentations can readily descend into forum fodder.

ADD: I agree 100% with Ramsey saying Hackleman's YT Channel is vastly under-rated, for MMA.

Wrong. He did taekwondo and karate for many years. He probably got more experience in TMA.

Way more.

Sorry but true.

 

[KarateStylist]

Wrong. He did taekwondo and karate for many years. He probably got more experience in TMA.

Way more.

Sorry but true.

I miss read one or more of his expose's then, he said kick boxing, more than once. Do you have the YT link?

I have a sparring question for you later... gotta go.

 

[Frode Falch]

I like to answer sparring questions with sparring. Not with typing.

 

[KarateStylist]

I like to answer sparring questions with sparring. Not with typing.

Well, you certainly have a point. I'm just goona cut & paste your answer to all the silly replies to my posts. Then have you step in.

ADD: Just to expand a little.
Game of Thrones - Season 6 - Episode 5 - Arya vs the Waif (HD)
40,743 views


GameOfThronesHD
Published on May 23, 2016
Arya trains with the Waif to become a faceless man.

Jaquen or what ever his name is, Arya's Faceless Man Master, Arya get's beat up continually by the Waif w the sparring. The Waif, like you, tells Arya (inadequate little KarateStylist) she'll never be good enough. Jaquen says to Arya, "she has a point."

See, though Frode, you'd made a solid point. Yet The Waif ends up with her face on the wall.

The martial moral being 'a point,' here sparring, isn't what wins.

p.s. And I might lose to you. like Arya. If you get what I mean.

 

[KarateStylist]

Wrong. He did taekwondo and karate for many years. He probably got more experience in TMA.

Way more.

Sorry but true.

Theres' a problem although certain facts of your assertion bear out.

From Ramsey "Danger" Deweys' website.

I have over 20 years of martial arts competition experience in multiple combat sports including: MMA, Muay Thai, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Sanda, K-1 kickboxing, American Kickboxing, Taekwondo, Full Contact Karate, Catch-Wrestling, and Boxing.

-I also study judo, taijiquan, capoeira, kobudo, and kenjutsu.

-Professional MMA fighter (verifiable sanctioned record) fought in the USA, China, Singapore, and Mongolia.

-3rd degree black belt in taekwondo (World Taekwondo Federation, 10 years of competition experience)

I cut it off @ the TKD line.

Here's the first flag, re traditional martial arts. He's trained everything under the sun by what, Age 40? How much has he accomplished in each specific art? In depth? Quantity vs. quality?

Second, you read his description of competition accomplishments and then match in his presentations and it comes out what? KICKBOXING.

So in TKD, the proverbial kickboxer in pajamas. Look at the guys' physique. Like Rogan, very strong athletic guy. Of course he could make his way in TKD compeition just like Rogan.

So this then sheds light on your weak points. Assessment of skill. The guy's got kick boxing stamped all over him, style wise.

 

[RTD1]

Wing chun devotee challenges Chinese MMA fighter and gets flattened in six seconds

 

[SandisLL]

So there's proof that this wing chun doesn't work at all!

 

[Gambitking]

Met him once. Strange little fellow

 

[KarateStylist]

Wing chun devotee challenges Chinese MMA fighter and gets flattened in six seconds

I send FighterTwister to the challenge. He'll Tiger / Crane ya (no joke).

 

[KarateStylist]

Wing chun devotee challenges Chinese MMA fighter and gets flattened in six seconds

Gawd, we have media addicts ramping up the MMA production line today. SEe, you have to do something to win. Small matter.

I predict FighterTwister by TKO, that is if his WC gym isn't a gif.

 

[KarateStylist]

I like to answer sparring questions with sparring. Not with typing.

And knowing you, I recommend you stick to that practice.

 

[Frode Falch]

You dont know me.

 

[FighterTwister]

To clarify, you actually watched those shitshows of grappling videos and felt that they were "really good techniques"?

LoL no I didn't, I just copied n pasted

Couldn't be bothered watching all videos online to make a point, just participating in discussion.

Who cares anyway what I think

As for me personally love it, just wish I was younger again

 

[zapataxiv]

In regards to WING CHUN vs BJJ......

What people don't really understand with all the ancient Chinese Martial Arts politics is that Kung - Fu has a family of martial arts systems where most compliment or are variations of another, spread across the various temples that existed (That's another dilemma)

In allot of ancient Chinese martial art teachings they understood back then the four combat zones as below image illustrates.

SOME YOUTUBES FOUND ONLINE AS EXAMPLES -














They are not stupid to the concept of grappling offensive and defensive techniques.

However they are more about control and finish applications then actual wrestling.

I hope that dispels any view that WC has poor ground tactics because in fact it has some really good techniques that are great for even MMA applications.

Open to other views and opinions

Are you a shaolin do student? O ask because a lot of the things you are saying are almost word for word from their manual.

 

[KarateStylist]

You dont know me.

Frode Falch Your game has no holes. Just teeny tiny crevasses.

Addendum: You like to answer sparring questions with sparring. What if that doesn't provide the answer you were looking for?

 

[KarateStylist]

Wrong. He did taekwondo and karate for many years. He probably got more experience in TMA.

Way more.

Sorry but true.

Hey, I can watch that 2013 fight again & again. You did yourself proud.

Those sparring answers you speak so highly of. Time = 2:30. Question.