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wing chun or muy thai for self defense

Nefron said:
First of all if you are in a fight against multiple opponents, you sure did something wrong.

You are making assumptions about grappling. In a multiple opponents situation the first thing attackers would do is to try to hold you while others hit you. Grappling will help you deal with that.

With good grappling you can use one guy as a shield. A good throw on concrete will probably end disable that attacker and buy you time to deal with the others or run. Grappling will also help you to get back to you feet.
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I can see where a trained grappler would have an advantage with that choke hold the guy had me in. You have some good points there. But if you think you're in a one on one fight and you go to the ground, as grapplers will want to do, and his friends jump in you're in real trouble. Which is why Krav Maga, which is taught to the FBI and special forces groups around the world, teaches you to stay off the ground. If you go down get back up ASAP. But grapplers are severly limited when off the ground. That's not what they train for.

Nefron said:
Sorry, but I don't believe your story. I don't actually believe you are trained enough to handle a single opponent, let alone kick that much ass.

Whatever, you said your peace, gave us your opinion. If you have any evidence other then compliant videos or your own unverifiable stories please post it. If not, it is best to stop posting in this thread. You are repeating the same old argument, and its getting quite boring.
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You don't know me from the man on the moon Nef. The ONLY thing you are basing your remarks on is your ignorance about Chinese styles. Here's a thought. Take your ass down to the local Choy Li Fut studio and tell the instructor you think his style is a bunch of crap. Then swing on him. See how long it takes him to put you down. Such challenges are an old tradition in Chinese styles. Take a friend along so you can film and post it so we can all watch. Consider it part of your education.

If you don't want to do that an alternative could be a trip to Zona Norte in Tijuana. Go by yourself about 10 PM. Walk from the border to save on cab fare. And be sure to flash some cash around. See if you believe me then. :D
 
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Nefron said:
Also, BJJ, Judo and Sambo all have potentially life ending techniques that can be practiced in a safe manner against resisting opponents.

We all saw limbs snapped and people choked out in competition. We all saw trained judoka get hurt from throws on soft mats. Imagine what would happen if these guys really want to hurt somebody.
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People may ease into joint locks or chokes in competition however when you go to throw somebody you throw them there is no light throw in competition or atleast thats what I can say from the few BJJ competitions I have done......
 
Any art can be good the thing is whats being taught and how.

Does the school teach real world threats in a realistic manner. I have been using training knives after teaching basic knife defense. I do realistic drills I know a lot of schools do a simple thrust and then stand there as you complete the technique. You have to spar with training weapons not just go through the motions with an unresponsive attacker. Im not sure how many MT schools do defense training I know my Sifu wasn't to big on it but I try to teach more of it now that my friend and I have our own school. Muay Thai or Wing Chun isn't the question it's what school is teaching more self defense and less sport. My Wing Chun guys are being taught to survive knives, bats, guns anything we can come up with. One of my biggest fears is having someone come at me with a knife so I stress it a lot. We also take our guys out to the shooting range I myself have a CCW permit. I have tried to watch videos of attacks and mix in things to help us train. I took an interest in Krav Maga and have tried to incorporate some ideas into my Wing Chun. Some Krav Maga techniques are very similar to Wing Chun.

I just seen the argument about being on the ground. In a real self defense situation your dead on the ground. Grappling training is a must but only to get off the ground never stay there long. I have seen so many get stomped around here you are very likely to be attacked by a group. We spar with groups in my class from time to time we have gone up to 4 on 1 in a basement.
 
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wolf3001 said:
Any art can be good the thing is whats being taught and how.

Does the school teach real world threats in a realistic manner. I have been using training knives after teaching basic knife defense. I do realistic drills I know a lot of schools do a simple thrust and then stand there as you complete the technique. You have to spar with training weapons not just go through the motions with an unresponsive attacker. Im not sure how many MT schools do defense training I know my Sifu wasn't to big on it but I try to teach more of it now that my friend and I have our own school. Muay Thai or Wing Chun isn't the question it's what school is teaching more self defense and less sport. My Wing Chun guys are being taught to survive knives, bats, guns anything we can come up with. One of my biggest fears is having someone come at me with a knife so I stress it a lot. We also take our guys out to the shooting range I myself have a CCW permit. I have tried to watch videos of attacks and mix in things to help us train. I took an interest in Krav Maga and have tried to incorporate some ideas into my Wing Chun. Some Krav Maga techniques are very similar to Wing Chun.

I just seen the argument about being on the ground. In a real self defense situation your dead on the ground. Grappling training is a must but only to get off the ground never stay there long. I have seen so many get stomped around here you are very likely to be attacked by a group. We spar with groups in my class from time to time we have gone up to 4 on 1 in a basement.
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Humble, realistic and sounds like some good training.
 
Muay thai, you'll fuck your attacker up with it, seriously, I'm talking broken ribs, dead legs, broken nose...
 
Fighting against multiple opponents is really tricky. Ask for 5 friends hold pads around you, you will see how difficult is to distribute fast and good strikes at every pad, you usually end up focusing in just one.
 
Human Bass said:
Fighting against multiple opponents is really tricky. Ask for 5 friends hold pads around you, you will see how difficult is to distribute fast and good strikes at every pad, you usually end up focusing in just one.
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What could you use against that? Certainly not Muay Thai or Wing Chun.

Ninjitsu perhaps? I know that teaches striking multiple targets.
 
You're more likely to find a Muay Thai place that'll teach you well than a Wing Chun one. Wing Chun can be good for self defense but there are a lot more Wing Chun McDojos than Muay Thai ones.
 
RMMaryport said:
What could you use against that? Certainly not Muay Thai or Wing Chun.

Ninjitsu perhaps? I know that teaches striking multiple targets.
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Your thinking about it the wrong way. It has less to do with attacking or defending against the multiple targets at once. You must attack one and line the rest up behind the one your attacking. This is where you get an advantage it makes it hard for them to attack without hitting each other. In all my sparring sessions with 4 guys I have always picked out the weakest link and used him as a shield to keep away from the others. If you let them surround you and one grabs you it's going to be a big problem. Lets say someone comes in behind you then others from the front. I would swing around the attacker behind me if possible and then shove him into someone else or take him out first. Don't focus on them as a group just watch where they are and attack one at a time. We train in the basement of a guys house it's not very big and we can still take 4 guys. We have also blindfolded each other 1 at a time until everyone was ready then pulled the blinders off a guy and attacked. You never know when you may be attacked or who is there. Sometimes a few of us attack with sticks or rubber weapons.

Get a group together put on pads and have someone blindfold you. Let them move around the room a bit then when everyone is ready have someone take off the blindfold and have the group attack as soon as it's off. First person to get close take him get in behind him and try to move them all in line with each other. It takes practice but it can be done I have trained this way several time.
 
ive done both and i say muay thai, just because of the more direct and rigorous approach to training.

not to take anything away from WC because I do think it has its merits
 
wolf3001 said:
Your thinking about it the wrong way. It has less to do with attacking or defending against the multiple targets at once. You must attack one and line the rest up behind the one your attacking. This is where you get an advantage it makes it hard for them to attack without hitting each other. In all my sparring sessions with 4 guys I have always picked out the weakest link and used him as a shield to keep away from the others. If you let them surround you and one grabs you it's going to be a big problem. Lets say someone comes in behind you then others from the front. I would swing around the attacker behind me if possible and then shove him into someone else or take him out first. Don't focus on them as a group just watch where they are and attack one at a time. We train in the basement of a guys house it's not very big and we can still take 4 guys. We have also blindfolded each other 1 at a time until everyone was ready then pulled the blinders off a guy and attacked. You never know when you may be attacked or who is there. Sometimes a few of us attack with sticks or rubber weapons.

Get a group together put on pads and have someone blindfold you. Let them move around the room a bit then when everyone is ready have someone take off the blindfold and have the group attack as soon as it's off. First person to get close take him get in behind him and try to move them all in line with each other. It takes practice but it can be done I have trained this way several time.
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I suppose you're correct, you should put a video of it, to show it in practice.
 
I think that Atemi JJ is the best solely because it teaches self defence purely. It doesn't have any long winded techniques and everything can be broken down and designed to fit the person. It was used by samurai so obviously wasn't invented by some douche in the 1980s looking for a martial art he could master. Also the third belt consists of sparring which people wear proper boxing gloves and sparring equipment for which means that you don't punch air.
 
You may be able to do wing chun when you're 70 or 80, but it will remain as ineffective as it was when you were 20.
 
SteelHammer said:
what the hell is that crap
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Quite corny, but acting like you were in a boxing ring against multiple opponents is much worse. She runs around, avoiding being surrounded, not trading strikes as if she were sparring.
 
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