Wing Chun kicks should be banned in MMA

[Woldog]

I like how you overlooked the vid of Anderson Silva abandoning his usual striking style to do some Wing Chun and Filipino boxing when up against the cage, in favour of commenting on a chick wearing a Bruce Lee T-shirt.

He also used the rare WC technique of shin elasticity

 

[TheMaster]

He also used the rare WC technique of shin elasticity

I think you'll find that's an exclusively Muay Thai technique and skill they introduced to the world - 'shin elasticity'- is why the Thai shin kick isn't done in WC or self defence oriented systems like Savate.



Let's give credit where it's due.

 

[Woldog]

I think you'll find that's an exclusively Muay Thai technique and skill they introduced to the world - 'shin elasticity'- is why the Thai shin kick isn't done in WC or self defence oriented systems like Savate.



Let's give credit where it's due.

Actually if you look at this WC has an identical kick, as Anderson Silva was purported to use WC techniques I'm sure he used the WC version resulting in shin elasticity passed down from the Tang Dynasty.
https://www.wingchunnews.ca/are-wing-chun-kicks-too-dirty-for-mma/

 

[TheMaster]

Actually if you look at this WC has an identical kick, as Anderson Silva was purported to use WC techniques I'm sure he used the WC version resulting in shin elasticity passed down from the Tang Dynasty.
https://www.wingchunnews.ca/are-wing-chun-kicks-too-dirty-for-mma/

Nice try but no. Great work though managing to find an article somewhere to try to pass the buck on the 'oh shit, break-your-own leg Thai kick"

"A roundhouse kick is performed striking with the shin in a similar manner to the Muay Thai version with most of the power coming from the body pivot."<45>



In over 20 years, thats literally the first and only time I have ever seen or heard someone claim that WC has a 'round kick with the shin, similar to Muay Thai'. You notice he gives no source for this bullshit claim as there is none.

All the WC kicks are found in the forms, and I can state that nowhere is it ever taught by any lineage to kick with the shin. Kicks are direct,and always with the foot or heel.

So credit for the kick will have to go to the Muay Thai Nak Nik mauys

 

[KOcounter]

I like how you overlooked the vid of Anderson Silva abandoning his usual striking style to do some Wing Chun and Filipino boxing when up against the cage, in favour of commenting on a chick wearing a Bruce Lee T-shirt.

I never said there was potentially nothing good in wing chun or that no one has used it in MMA. What I took umbrage with was your claim that orr does not incorporate boxing and kickboxing and that wing chun traditionally looked like the end product of that incorporation. I made fun of wing chun as it is commonly practiced but never said that I think it cannot or does not work in all forms, only that I think that a historically legit wing chun still wouldn't look the same as orr or modern kickboxing and was a limited system with some key flaws.

As for Anderson he's had far more sucess with that in boxing, not neccesairly just because of the rule difference but because of greater striping down and experimentation, than he has had in MMA.

The stuff he used with Bisping in MMA was mostly taken, irc, from panantukan, largely taken from his time doing Escrima and jkd with Dan inosanto on a visit. And whilst there was the odd Interesting idea here and there, his execution of it made him worse and irc he got punched in the face a few times looking like he was juggling an invisible ball. In his prime he didn't really have much of any chun or Eskrima like training and what most chunners who tried to claim him did was misrepresent him flailing his own hands around creatively as wing chun.

His use of bong sau, probably one of the most legit blocks in wing chun, in boxing has been great tho.

 

[Woldog]

Nice try but no. Great work though managing to find an article somewhere to try to pass the buck on the 'oh shit, break-your-own leg Thai kick"

"A roundhouse kick is performed striking with the shin in a similar manner to the Muay Thai version with most of the power coming from the body pivot."<45>



In over 20 years, thats literally the first and only time I have ever seen or heard someone claim that WC has a 'round kick with the shin, similar to Muay Thai'. You notice he gives no source for this bullshit claim as there is none.

All the WC kicks are found in the forms, and I can state that nowhere is it ever taught by any lineage to kick with the shin. Kicks are direct,and always with the foot or heel.

So credit for the kick will have to go to the Muay Thai Nak Nik mauys

It's obvious you don't know as much about Wing Chun as me. This is a sad development.

 

[KOcounter]

It's obvious you don't know as much about Wing Chun as me. This is a sad development.

You can't claim to know the real chun unless you wank yourself cross eyed over badly thought through Venn diagrams and physic graphs explaining why even a 110lb malnutrioned Chinese peasant can punch harder than deontay wilder by tightening his sphincter and sucking up his own testicles.

 

[TheMaster]

3/5 basically for the ban
1/5 'I don't like it or use it but whatever, you need to defend'
1/5 'game on, just bleed'

 

[TheMaster]

I never said there was potentially nothing good in wing chun or that no one has used it in MMA. What I took umbrage with was your claim that orr does not incorporate boxing and kickboxing and that wing chun traditionally looked like the end product of that incorporation. I made fun of wing chun as it is commonly practiced but never said that I think it cannot or does not work in all forms, only that I think that a historically legit wing chun still wouldn't look the same as orr or modern kickboxing and was a limited system with some key flaws.

Yes, and you're very wrong as I have explained. What Orr is doesn't look 'like boxing', even the heavily hybridized and modifed version of 'boxing' that we see in MMA.

There is no historical precedent because it wasn't used in this setting. That doesn't mean that as a principle based system one cannot be fully consistent with the art and apply it to MMA. When we add the factor of cross training with catch wrestling and maybe even few things here and there from whichever compatible arts (as pretty much every legit MMA fighter does today) we get a system that looks like what Orr is using - 100% applied Wing Chun in a stand-up MMA setting.


It may not look exactly like what you imagine WC is, which is frankly irrelevant given you have very little knowledge, but it is still fully legit.
You also don't have enough understanding to critique the historic use in any way since you say they use 'weak arm punches'.<45>

The reason I also mention the illegal techniques is because classic Wing Chun looks like it does partly because it will render you unconscious within a few seconds of getting close if necessary using these methods, and they do change the dynamics.

You can't have it both ways - eliminate about 30% of the system and the most dangerous strikes to make it sport compatible, put it in with wrestlers and kickboxers in a big ring to move in but then still want it to look exactly the same as traditional WC. It will look different, and to a certain extent there will be some convergence with what we see in 'mma boxing' or 'mma Muay Thai'.
That doesn't change that it's using different mechanics to get to a similar goal.

I even distinguish 'Traditional WC' from 'freestyle WC' where the principle are consistent with strikes done from unconventional angles, more range fighting, integration with chi sau skills and grappling. It is an evolution,and ultimately about what works.

 

[JohnPJones]

Relevant to this discussion I swear

 

[DoctorTaco]

Relevant to this discussion I swear

I had a sensible chuckle

 

[JohnPJones]

I had a sensible chuckle

Probably the best solo content he does are these skits lol

 

[Matsukaze]

I say bring back the 12 to 6 elbow and turn them loose

 

[TheMaster]

So I thought the Diaz - Lawler fight was badass. It happened inside a telephone booth and I remember thinking that some of what Nick was doing especially, standing back up against cage and deflecting, handtrapping and parrying, inside fighting looked a lot like what freestyle WC would look like. A lot of overlap there.



Lol at calling what either Diaz or Lawler are doing at this point in their standup as "boxing".

It bears little resemblance to actual boxing but is heavily hybridized style of MMA standup, integrating some standing grappling, Muay Thai, boxing, and just small glove adaptation or "dirty boxing". And Diaz does use some WC influence as I could observe in the fight. He is at point where he could integrate many things, but the reverse is also true, a guy could train with a WC base and integrate to come to a similar style but more focussed on close range and clinch. This is how MMA evolves arts.



What he is doing some of it looks like alot more WC than even some of Orrs guys due to the style that he fights.
Either way it is clear evidence that "straight boxing" does not do well in MMA and "MMA standup", "freestyle Wing Chun" or 'Filipino boxing" or "hybrid Boxing-MT-Greco" is what is most suited and will converge to an extent.

 

[aerius]

So I thought the Diaz - Lawler fight was badass. It happened inside a telephone booth and I remember thinking that some of what Nick was doing especially, standing back up against cage and deflecting, handtrapping and parrying, inside fighting looked a lot like what freeform WC would look like. A lot of overlap there.



Lol at calling what either Diaz or Lawler are doing at this point in their standup as "boxing".

It bears little resemblance to actual boxing but is heavily hybridized style of MMA standup, integrating some standing grappling, Muay Thai, boxing, and just small glove adaptation or "dirty boxing". And Diaz does use some WC influence as I could observe in the fight. He is at point where he could integrate many things, but the reverse is also true, a guy could train with a WC base and integrate to come to a similar style but more focussed on close range and clinch. This is how MMA evolves arts.
View attachment 881863


What he is doing some of it looks like alot more WC than even some of Orrs guys due to the style that he fights.
Either way it is clear evidence that "straight boxing" does not do well in MMA and "MMA standup", "freeform Wing Chun" or 'Filipino boxing" or "hybrid Boxing-MT-Greco" is what is most suited and will converge to an extent.

Lol. It's like you've never watched a Roberto Duran fight.

 

[TheMaster]

Lol. It's like you've never watched a Roberto Duran fight.

Lol.
So I'm learning that "boxing" can be literally anything now; small glove guard, deflections, open hand parry and grabs, elbows and forearms, clinch.
Basically "what Wing Chun is supposed to be". Also knowns as "MMA standup" or "Box-Thai-Greco".

 

[JohnPJones]

Why are people still posting here?
He’s a trolling and y’all just keep feeding him.

 

[Human Bass]

Checking kicks have resulted in more damage than oblique kicks.

 

[TheMaster]

Checking kicks have resulted in more damage than oblique kicks.

Yes, but that is a defence. The intent is not to do a move that can cause such injury. If people want to avoid it they can stop throwing low round kicks but they can't stop receiving knee stomps kicks.

Why are people still posting here?
He’s a trolling and y’all just keep feeding him.

It's not trolling fool.
The WC kick is legit and there is a debate on if it should be banned.

You have something against Wing Chun and want to promote the idea that the heavily modified hybridized and cross trained standup we see in MMA is still "boxing" when it is looking closer to WC the more it evolves.

 

[TheMaster]

Interesting that I didn't see this brought up, maybe I missed it in this thread, but linear kicks directed at the knee is banned in Muay Thai and nearly every Kickboxing promotion.

For example, in Glory:

1.2.9. Prohibited techniques, moves and conduct

• Head butts, or coming in too low with one’s head
• All techniques targeting the back of the head or back or the torso
• Techniques targeting the groin;
• Linear or thrusting kicks directed at knee (i.e. front kick, side kick, back kick)

Looks like I missed this post somehow.

Common sense that it's banned.
No doubt the Thais know about it and sensibly ban or strongly discourage it to save the careers of fighters and allow more fights.

Honestly shocked that there is so much resistance on this thread to the logic that such moves are clearly not a sport technique and have little place there.