Will an ankle lock break the ankle?

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Roland19, Mar 9, 2008.

  1. Roland19

    Roland19 Banned Banned

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    Will an ankle lock (not any type of heel hook) break the ankle. I've heard it's just a pain submission, but I was also rolling one time and didn't tap. My ankle popped several times and my friend let go. It didn't hurt right away but the next morning I woke up and it was swollen for about two weeks. If he had kept cranking would it have broken or was that about the extent of the damage. Opinions? Examples?
     
  2. easy tiger

    easy tiger Blue Belt

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    Those were ligaments popping/tearing. I'm not sure what happens exactly after the ligaments fully tear.
     
  3. Roland19

    Roland19 Banned Banned

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    They must not have torn fully because it was all better in a couple of weeks. I guess it would be a matter of whether or not there is enough leverage to complete the tare. Kind of like the straight arm bar from the side mount where you reach across the body, doesn't usually work well because the arm hits the ground before enough leverage can be generated to break it.
     
  4. Delbjj

    Delbjj Green Belt

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    As far as I know the ankle is not a bone, so in fact cannot break.

    Ankle locks can tear ligaments, and tendons, as well as break the bones of shin of done in a certain manner
     
  5. easy tiger

    easy tiger Blue Belt

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    You can fully tear the ligaments for sure. I assume the Talus would/could break too, but again I'm not 100% sure if any of the 3 "ankle bones" would break if applied with enough force.

    A little over a month ago, I had one of my training partners in a triangle and I did a "handstand sweep" to roll him over. It worked a lot easier than expected so when we landed, he ended up falling on my ankle (The one not hooked on my knee). I heard a loud pop so I went to the ER the next day. It's been about a month and a week or two and my ankle is still pretty weak. Point is, I essentially got caught in an "ankle lock" with a lot of force, and it still didn't break any bones (Only tore ligaments), so it must take quite a bit of force to do so.
     
  6. easy tiger

    easy tiger Blue Belt

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    The top ankle joint does have the tibula, fibula, and talus. The talus is what's considered the ankle bone.
     
  7. JerseyTrash

    JerseyTrash Silver Belt

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    I've actually heard both answers on this.
     
  8. Delbjj

    Delbjj Green Belt

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    Cool, Is that bone considered to be a bone of the foot or the shin?

    I had a student get heel hooked and broke a bone in his foot/anlke wondering if this was it
     
  9. Roland19

    Roland19 Banned Banned

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    Can it dislocate out of socket like the shoulder?
     
  10. easy tiger

    easy tiger Blue Belt

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    The talus is a foot bone, but the tibula and fibula are shin bones. It's plausible for that to happen, but I've usually heard of the heel hook messing ligaments/connective tisssue up in the knee. An inverted heel hook seems like it'd be more likely to mess up the ankle as well as the knee. Does anyone have any say on this?
     
  11. Roland19

    Roland19 Banned Banned

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    I think the heel hook usually hurts the knee because most peoples ankles are stronger than their knees, so the ankle acts as the lever and the knee gives first. However some people do feel it in their ankle before their knee. I think this just means their knees are stronger than their ankles and hold steady while the ankle twists instead of the other way around.
     
  12. codemonkey76

    codemonkey76 Black Belt

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    i broke my navicular.... not from an ankle lock though :p
     
  13. ahcshon

    ahcshon Purple Belt

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    well I know my ankle hurts when it is cold/haven't warmed up. Tap to ankle locks. Bas Rutten doesn't know what he is talking about when he says its just a pain submission. A straight ankle lock has the potential to really mess up your ankle.
     
  14. Roland19

    Roland19 Banned Banned

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    I'm looking at an anatomy book right now and from what it looks like your figure-four ankle lock will cause a sprain(a stretching or taring of the ligaments). Dislocation seems unlikely the way it is fitted it looks like you would have to tear through the flesh in order to do this. Fractures do occur on the fibula(specifically the lateral malleolus)if the foot is turned outward enough, but this is something that a heel hook would cause if the ankle is stronger than the knee.
     
  15. Delbjj

    Delbjj Green Belt

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    This is possile, but highly unlikely in a foot lock of any kind
     
  16. easy tiger

    easy tiger Blue Belt

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    An ankle lock will sprain your ankle if you don't tap (Severity increasing depending on how long you wait, haha). This happened to me in a tourney final once. Usually nothing breaks it seems. Just connective tissue gets messed up. Heel hooks are another story in which someone with more experience is going to have to chime in on.
     
  17. Delbjj

    Delbjj Green Belt

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    He spained a ligament, but broke a bone in his foot.

    Heel hooks and toe holds can damage either, depending on the angle of the bend in the knee mostly.

    If your knee is straight or locked out, the pressue occurs at the ankle. If the knee is bent the pressure builds at the far side of the bent knee. This is a generalization, not the absolute standard
     
  18. EndoG

    EndoG Blue Belt

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    The elbow, knee, and shoulder are also not bones. Another way of putting it might be can you do enough damage to the joint or associated body part to create immediate or long-term (totally different of course) debilitation?
    I don't know either unfortunately... :icon_sad:
     
  19. Kuark

    Kuark Yellow Belt

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    If you dont clamp the knee it will put pressure in the ankle before the knee. On topic, a ankle lock can do alot of damage to your ankle if not break it. I know guys who have been out for a few weeks because they thought it was just a pain lock while in comp.
     
  20. Delbjj

    Delbjj Green Belt

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    Disloacate, hyper-extend, tear ligaments, tendons, synovial tissue.


    But I agree, not a break, as in a broken bone
     

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