Why sleeping is essentially dying

Tycho- Taylor's Version

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Lately I've been thinking a lot about the method of copying consciousness in an effort to avoid dying, such as in cloning or mind/consciousness uploading.

Here I want to demonstrate why I don't think either can succeed in dodging death, along with an odd consequence of that line of thought.


Scenario 1: You sign up to climb a perilous mountain. The cultivators of the trail have developed a fail-safe method to ensure that no harm befalls you as you climb: they used advanced technology to make a perfect clone of you before you ascend. That way, should something happen to you, all they have to do is wake the clone up and you can continue with your life unperturbed and uninjured.

Conclusion: A lot of people who haven't put a great deal of thought into this will respond that though they still have some hesitation about the climb, the backup clone does provide reassurance that they can continue living even if they die doing the trek.


Scenario 2: You take part in the climb described above, and there's a horrible accident that results in you falling from a cliff. Fortunately some branches and fresh snow break your fall, and you survive without serious injury. You make your way back to camp, and find that since you were presumed dead, your clone has been awakened to continue your life. Now you are both alive simultaneously.

Conclusion: Despite the common intuition about Scenario 1, it can't be the case that a clone would mean the continuation of your own life/consciousness if it can be alive at the same time as you. You alone are home to your own continuous psychology. And in fact this phenomenon is called psychological continuity.


Psychological continuity is a key concept for mind uploading. If you can successfully copy or upload someone's mind, you still don't get the result you want if you aren't actually maintaining the continuity of their consciousness. Similar to considerations about the teleportation machines from Star Trek, what may actually be happening is that you're killing one consciousness and generating a brand new one. Of course from the perspective of the new mind, and everyone else around it, the same life has continued. It's only the first person-perspective that's been wiped out - but the whole point of the exercise to begin with was to keep that going, not to merely replace it.

This brings us to the final point about sleep. Somehow, probably through some kind of identification with the body or brain, consciousness experiences continuity despite shutting off during sleep. This seems to indicate that there must be some mechanism that enables continuity in the brain. However there's also another possibility, which is that waking consciousness automatically assumes continuity even when it should be in question.

When you wake up and someone has drawn a giant penis on your face in permanent marker, you don't assume that you're a flawed penis-face copy of the old you that's just recently been generated, you assume that you're the same thing you fell asleep as but someone has tampered with you in the night. But what if you woke up missing limbs, or as another sex, or in a different body altogether? What reason do you have to believe you're still you, and not something new?

The arguments that apply to the Star Trek transporter or the mountain clone seem also to apply to sleep. You die when you fall asleep. The person who wakes up again is just very stubbornly convinced that this isn't the case.

Rest in peace Sherdoggers.

~FIN


TL;DR: you're an impostor who refuses to acknowledge the death of the person you think you woke up as. Should you now be afraid to sleep?
 
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I want to clone myself into a college kid who has a big dick lol
 
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tenor.gif
 
Fear of death is just a product of your ego. It's already happened an infinite amount of times before and will happen an infinite amount of times again. Enlightenment is the only way out of the endless cycle
 
Damm man. Like I get it, but

Go to bed. Turn off the phone, shit everything down. Deep breathe, exhale, get as comfy as possible.

Clear that mind. If that's difficult, focus on ocean wave after wave, cresting and hitting the beach. Get the rhythm. Replay that.

Go to bed man!!!

Edit: the absoulte undeniable truth is that your supposed clone is not you. Don't say you go on through the clone. You don't. The clone goes on. Not you
 
If
That way, should something happen to you, all they have to do is wake the clone up and you can continue with your life unperturbed and uninjured.

then how
Fortunately some branches and fresh snow break your fall, and you survive without serious injury. You make your way back to camp, and find that since you were presumed dead, your clone has been awakened to continue your life. Now you are both alive simultaneously.

That clone oughta wake up on its own only when the real person dies, right?? Otherwise they're not actually you if you're still alive.
 
It isn’t some enigmatic mechanism that allows you to realize a penis was drawn on your face when you wake up. It is the sum of all your experiences and ability to reason that leads you to that conclusion. Just like how if your clone was awakens when you died, and had all your memories up to the point just before you began your trek up the mountain, your clone may have some confusion at first and think “why haven’t we begun climbing yet?” but would ultimately come to the realization that you did, but died, and he was the clone.
 
Why sleeping is essentially dying.
It is not.
Why would you want to avoid death?
Complex scenarios.
Is the spirit included in this scenario? Is there a spirit? Will this turn into another religion discussion?
 
I had a friend who became addicted to meth and started shooting it up. When he first became addicted his parents and family intervened by taking him to a rehab clinic where he was able to give it up and become a devout christian who lived his day to day life on the teachings of the bible. I don't how or what happened but somehow he changed and went straight back to shooting it up. He would hear voices and think he was in a war zone so one night he ended up in some car park, broke the window of a car and slept in the back until the cops arrested him the next day.

Ever since then he's never been the same because he used to tell me that when he was taken to the mental health ward they had a secret underground area where they performed satanic practices and did experiments on him. After that he's never mentioned it and has never been the same person I used to know before the addiction. I believe the "original" is either dead or being kept for experimentation and the "person" they released is a clone of him.

From what I've read clones cannot completely function 100% like a real person and they require some sort of stimulant to keep their brains functional on a basic level. This is where I believe the meth comes into play because cloned brains can't produce endorphins on their own and need it in unnaturally high levels to sustain itself. I've been around him a couple times when he shoots the meth and everything revolves around getting the meth and shooting it into his vein. Once it's done he goes from hearing voices and people screaming to then talking in tongues and screaming out of his window at the sky. Then he does it all over again and it seems like nothing can change this behavior. Because of all this I believe the friend I once knew is no longer alive and has been replaced by a synthetic duplicate with implanted memories
 
Lately I've been thinking a lot about the method of copying consciousness in an effort to avoid dying, such as in cloning or mind/consciousness uploading.

Here I want to demonstrate why I don't think either can succeed in dodging death, along with an odd consequence of that line of thought.


Scenario 1: You sign up to climb a perilous mountain. The cultivators of the trail have developed a fail-safe method to ensure that no harm befalls you as you climb: they used advanced technology to make a perfect clone of you before you ascend. That way, should something happen to you, all they have to do is wake the clone up and you can continue with your life unperturbed and uninjured.

Conclusion: A lot of people who haven't put a great deal of thought into this will respond that though they still have some hesitation about the climb, the backup clone does provide reassurance that they can continue living even if they die doing the trek.


Scenario 2: You take part in the climb described above, and there's a horrible accident that results in you falling from a cliff. Fortunately some branches and fresh snow break your fall, and you survive without serious injury. You make your way back to camp, and find that since you were presumed dead, your clone has been awakened to continue your life. Now you are both alive simultaneously.

Conclusion: Despite the common intuition about Scenario 1, it can't be the case that a clone would mean the continuation of your own life/consciousness if it can be alive at the same time as you. You alone are home to your own continuous psychology. And in fact this phenomenon is called psychological continuity.


Psychological continuity is a key concept for mind uploading. If you can successfully copy or upload someone's mind, you still don't get the result you want if you aren't actually maintaining the continuity of their consciousness. Similar to considerations about the teleportation machines from Star Trek, what may actually be happening is that you're killing one consciousness and generating a brand new one. Of course from the perspective of the new mind, and everyone else around it, the same life has continued. It's only the first person-perspective that's been wiped out - but the whole point of the exercise to begin with was to keep that going, not to merely replace it.

This brings us to the final point about sleep. Somehow, probably through some kind of identification with the body or brain, consciousness experiences continuity despite shutting off during sleep. This seems to indicate that there must be some mechanism that enables continuity in the brain. However there's also another possibility, which is that waking consciousness automatically assumes continuity even when it should be in question.

When you wake up and someone has drawn a giant penis on your face in permanent marker, you don't assume that you're a flawed penis-face copy of the old you that's just recently been generated, you assume that you're the same thing you fell asleep as but someone has tampered with you in the night. But what if you woke up missing limbs, or as another sex, or in a different body altogether? What reason do you have to believe you're still you, and not something new?

The arguments that apply to the Star Trek transporter or the mountain clone seem also to apply to sleep. You die when you fall asleep. The person who wakes up again is just very stubbornly convinced that this isn't the case.

Rest in peace Sherdoggers.

~FIN


TL;DR: you're an impostor because reasons.

your tl;dr, is WAY too short. could you add a bit more?
 
I had a friend who became addicted to meth and started shooting it up. When he first became addicted his parents and family intervened by taking him to a rehab clinic where he was able to give it up and become a devout christian who lived his day to day life on the teachings of the bible. I don't how or what happened but somehow he changed and went straight back to shooting it up. He would hear voices and think he was in a war zone so one night he ended up in some car park, broke the window of a car and slept in the back until the cops arrested him the next day.

Ever since then he's never been the same because he used to tell me that when he was taken to the mental health ward they had a secret underground area where they performed satanic practices and did experiments on him. After that he's never mentioned it and has never been the same person I used to know before the addiction. I believe the "original" is either dead or being kept for experimentation and the "person" they released is a clone of him.

From what I've read clones cannot completely function 100% like a real person and they require some sort of stimulant to keep their brains functional on a basic level. This is where I believe the meth comes into play because cloned brains can't produce endorphins on their own and need it in unnaturally high levels to sustain itself. I've been around him a couple times when he shoots the meth and everything revolves around getting the meth and shooting it into his vein. Once it's done he goes from hearing voices and people screaming to then talking in tongues and screaming out of his window at the sky. Then he does it all over again and it seems like nothing can change this behavior. Because of all this I believe the friend I once knew is no longer alive and has been replaced by a synthetic duplicate with implanted memories
Not a clone, just the horrors of meth addiction. I had some false memories myself from a couple benders I was on. Going a few days with hardly any sleep and different chemicals in your body will do some weird things. My false memories were nothing that peculiar but they were clear as day memories that I was sure happened until my friends told me otherwise
 
I had a friend who became addicted to meth and started shooting it up. When he first became addicted his parents and family intervened by taking him to a rehab clinic where he was able to give it up and become a devout christian who lived his day to day life on the teachings of the bible. I don't how or what happened but somehow he changed and went straight back to shooting it up. He would hear voices and think he was in a war zone so one night he ended up in some car park, broke the window of a car and slept in the back until the cops arrested him the next day.

Ever since then he's never been the same because he used to tell me that when he was taken to the mental health ward they had a secret underground area where they performed satanic practices and did experiments on him. After that he's never mentioned it and has never been the same person I used to know before the addiction. I believe the "original" is either dead or being kept for experimentation and the "person" they released is a clone of him.

From what I've read clones cannot completely function 100% like a real person and they require some sort of stimulant to keep their brains functional on a basic level. This is where I believe the meth comes into play because cloned brains can't produce endorphins on their own and need it in unnaturally high levels to sustain itself. I've been around him a couple times when he shoots the meth and everything revolves around getting the meth and shooting it into his vein. Once it's done he goes from hearing voices and people screaming to then talking in tongues and screaming out of his window at the sky. Then he does it all over again and it seems like nothing can change this behavior. Because of all this I believe the friend I once knew is no longer alive and has been replaced by a synthetic duplicate with implanted memories


Lol @ this story.
 
Suppose they do successfully transfer your consciousness into something/someone else, wtf are you gonna do for 100 years or whatever?
 
I think of dying alot when i am trying to sleep. It helps me get to unconciousness. Never been good at getting to sleep.I just try to think of a peaceful death and eventually i knock out.
 
I had a friend who became addicted to meth and started shooting it up. When he first became addicted his parents and family intervened by taking him to a rehab clinic where he was able to give it up and become a devout christian who lived his day to day life on the teachings of the bible. I don't how or what happened but somehow he changed and went straight back to shooting it up. He would hear voices and think he was in a war zone so one night he ended up in some car park, broke the window of a car and slept in the back until the cops arrested him the next day.

Ever since then he's never been the same because he used to tell me that when he was taken to the mental health ward they had a secret underground area where they performed satanic practices and did experiments on him. After that he's never mentioned it and has never been the same person I used to know before the addiction. I believe the "original" is either dead or being kept for experimentation and the "person" they released is a clone of him.

From what I've read clones cannot completely function 100% like a real person and they require some sort of stimulant to keep their brains functional on a basic level. This is where I believe the meth comes into play because cloned brains can't produce endorphins on their own and need it in unnaturally high levels to sustain itself. I've been around him a couple times when he shoots the meth and everything revolves around getting the meth and shooting it into his vein. Once it's done he goes from hearing voices and people screaming to then talking in tongues and screaming out of his window at the sky. Then he does it all over again and it seems like nothing can change this behavior. Because of all this I believe the friend I once knew is no longer alive and has been replaced by a synthetic duplicate with implanted memories
orrrrrrrrrr, now hear me out mi know this might sound crazy, but just maybe.....hes on meth?
 
What do you guys try to think about when your trying to sleep?
 
hmm why did you think penis instead of mustache ?
 
I think of dying alot when i am trying to sleep. It helps me get to unconciousness. Never been good at getting to sleep.I just try to think of a peaceful death and eventually i knock out.

or have a wank and hey presto, sleepy time
 
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