Why is sport jiu jitsu...

[blanko]

Thats why you have a coach, its their job to make them a balanced fighter. Some people have a good top game. Some a good bottom game. Some a leglock game. Everyone should be well rounded and the reason BJJers are all around better grapplers (IMO) than Judoka is because their lack of restrictions.

Restricting the use of leglocks because of ego is counter productive to the sport.

not really cus in jiu jitsu there are some "cannons" such as positional dominance before submission, minimal wasted enegery, ect. Guard passing is a skill that is hard to learn for a new member and the more they are forced to develop that skill the better it is. Look at ADCC and at the highest lvl of mma. How many champions use leglocks as their main weapon?

 

[georgejjr]

Heel hooks lead quickly to serious injuries, it makes sense not to allow them at low levels. Leg locks in general though are part of grappling, and the sooner you're exposed to them the sooner you learn to defend against them. Most MMA clubs I've seen teach leglocks fairly early, and there aren't a lot of injuries because of it - note they usually don't teach heel hooks until much later.

Of course, MMA clubs generally aren't as concerned about the guard game, because of ground and pound ... its practiced, but going into guard is seen as something you have to do sometimes, not something you want to do.

 

[Balto]

Banning kneebars at the purple belt level is pretty silly.

I was surprised to hear this was the case for the Pan Ams. I checked the IBJJF rules and apparently "Leg Locks" are banned for blue and purple.

Fortunately, there are a lot of gi competitions that do allow kneebars at the purple belt level.

 

[Falconry]

This shit makes me want to quit BJJ and take up sambo or catch. Honestly.

 

[Calibur]

Guard passing is a skill that is hard to learn for a new member and the more they are forced to develop that skill the better it is.

You are right. Beginners shouldnt do leglocks. They should focus on fundamentals. That shouldnt take more than a year and a half. The IBJJF states that you cant use leglocks until brownbelt. An average of 8 years of training. Training grappling for 8 years not being allowed to use leglocks? Their game is essentially developed by this level anyway. Leg attacks are complex and there is no incentive to work on them.

 

[Cardio King]

Everything but neck cranks, in my opinion.

Heel-hooks included.

 

[joshv5.0]

i hate all the rules, i think all subs should be legal by the purple belt level.

 

[Ring>>Cage]

In my school bluebelts and above are allowed straight leg locks with gi and all leg locks no gi. If there is an upcoming competition we study and train for the rules without bitching about it.

Some of you people talking about quitting BJJ because of competition rules are silly. If you are so concerned with practical application of submission based fighting maybe you should be focusing more on no gi grappling. BJJ with gi is more of a novelty sport that helps with self defense more than a practical method. How many times are you going to get in a street fight with a guy wearing a collar you can choke him with? I do BJJ with gi for fitness, fun and tradition, if I cared for being some MMA god I'd train for that.

 

[Jimmy Cerra]

In my school bluebelts and above are allowed straight leg locks with gi and all leg locks no gi. If there is an upcoming competition we study and train for the rules without bitching about it.

Some of you people talking about quitting BJJ because of competition rules are silly. If you are so concerned with practical application of submission based fighting maybe you should be focusing more on no gi grappling. BJJ with gi is more of a novelty sport that helps with self defense more than a practical method. How many times are you going to get in a street fight with a guy wearing a collar you can choke him with? I do BJJ with gi for fitness, fun and tradition, if I cared for being some MMA god I'd train for that.

I agree people talking about quitting BJJ because of leg locks are silly. But I disagree with the rest of your post. Um, most of the time I wear a shirt. I can choke people out with a tee-shirt. I don't expect to fight many people not wearing shirts (and I can use my own shirt against them too). Nobody yells at fighters for wearing boxing gloves when doing striking, and that's just as different from MMA too. The gi is not a novelty.

Sambo guys don't wear gis. They wear shorts instead of long pants. It does makes a difference in the danger of twisting knee locks like the heel hook in gi compared with no-gi.

As for the guard and MMA, GNP does not automatically destroy the guard. You got to train GNP too, and the guard is called the guard because if you are good at it, then you can neutralize a lot of GNP.

 

[Rbagu3]

Banning kneebars at the purple belt level is pretty silly.

I was surprised to hear this was the case for the Pan Ams. I checked the IBJJF rules and apparently "Leg Locks" are banned for blue and purple.

Fortunately, there are a lot of gi competitions that do allow kneebars at the purple belt level.

wtf there are 2 of these threads? i'll sum up what i siad in the other one. this is the reason i love learning sambo. i have been learning leg locks since day 1

 

[Masakatsu Funaki #1]

Anyone who considers themselve a decent grappler should be able to quickly adapt to any rule set.

If leglocks aren't allowed go for the arms, neck, wrist, torso, whatever.

The End

 

[FLMikeATT]

While leg locks aren't gone over in our class, they aren't frowned upon. I got heel hooked by a good white belt the other day. This guy was straight up hunting for leg locks against me. I escaped a kneebar and the first heel hook attempt, but I was too slow on the 2nd and my leg was already locked in so I had to tap.

I'm just glad he to do it slowly and not tear my leg off.

I'm not really embarrassed about getting tapped by a white belt via heel hook because I've never actually trained leg lock defense. The only defenses I know are what I can learn from the internet. It's a lot different just having theoretical knowledge, and actually being able to apply it during a roll. Also, I managed to escape the first 2 leg lock attempts and I wasn't really expecting a 3rd. Instead of getting all pissy and telling the white belt to work on guard passing more, I realized that I need to work on my leg lock defense more. I gave him props then continued rolling.

 

[Darksky]

Man, I would love to use heal hooks on all the spazz blue and white belts. If my instructor let us higher belts use them we could put an end to the careers of all these spazzes early.

 

[georgejjr]

BJJ with gi is more of a novelty sport that helps with self defense more than a practical method. How many times are you going to get in a street fight with a guy wearing a collar you can choke him with? I do BJJ with gi for fitness, fun and tradition, if I cared for being some MMA god I'd train for that.

Depends where you live. In Canada, people wear jackets 10 months of the year. If someone attacked me who wasn't wearing one I'd stall for the couple of minutes it took him to drop into hypothermic shock :icon_chee

On the other hand, if you live in Florida I agree you're better off going no-gi for self-defense.

 

[Zankou]

I hate it when people who can't even finish somebody with a straight ankle lock are bitching about how they can't use heelhooks.

Nothing like two white/blue belts trying to rip each others' knees off with heelhooks.

There is a huge difference between training leglocks and competing with them. I rolled with heelhooks today in class, trusting the guy I was training with. But am I going to trust some braindead roid monkey in a tournament to have my safety in mind when he's going for a heelhook? Fuck no, he's going to try to rip my leg off 9 times out of 10. I'm not getting paid, and I'm not going to be gimping about for the rest of my life because some over-excited kid wanted a plastic trophy.

 

[JerseyTrash]

I understand no heel hooks on the lower belt levels. I trust myself to heel hook somebody else carefully, but I really don't trust other white belts to heel hook me.

 

[Chinaboxer]

I hate it when people who can't even finish somebody with a straight ankle lock are bitching about how they can't use heelhooks.

Nothing like two white/blue belts trying to rip each others' knees off with heelhooks.

There is a huge difference between training leglocks and competing with them. I rolled with heelhooks today in class, trusting the guy I was training with. But am I going to trust some braindead roid monkey in a tournament to have my safety in mind when he's going for a heelhook? Fuck no, he's going to try to rip my leg off 9 times out of 10. I'm not getting paid, and I'm not going to be gimping about for the rest of my life because some over-excited kid wanted a plastic trophy.

i kinda understand your point, but what's the difference between this example and someone who cranks armbars and kimura's?

It goes back to my opinion that when you don't know the subtle movements of ANY sub, grapplers tend to use brute force to get the tap. By learning leg game early, you learn them faster, thus less injuries.

 

[exile27]

When I was in the Marine Corps, I had a buddy that was teaching me to grapple durring our down time while we were in Iraq. The heel hook is one of the subs that he showed me, and we worked it a lot.

Well I had this SSGT who was a MCMAP black belt instructor, who was talking shit and wanted to roll. We ended up being pretty evenly matched, and rolled for a good while. Eventually I got him in a heel hook and attempted to apply slow steady pressure until he tapped. But instead he spazzed and tried to yank his leg out. I heard a loud pop, followed by him screaming.

He ended up being okay, and just had a little limp for a few days. But after that I decided to not attempt any heel hooks unless I know the guy I'm rolling with isn't a spazz, and will tap when he's caught.

 

[Jimmy Cerra]

i kinda understand your point, but what's the difference between this example and someone who cranks armbars and kimura's?

It goes back to my opinion that when you don't know the subtle movements of ANY sub, grapplers tend to use brute force to get the tap. By learning leg game early, you learn them faster, thus less injuries.

Ambars and kimuras should not be cranked. I learned the leg game early too, but I still haven't mastered it.

 

[Chinaboxer]

Ambars and kimuras should not be cranked. I learned the leg game early too, but I still haven't mastered it.

Of course, i agree with you. And the main reason IMO is because Armbars and kimuras are taught day one, while leg game is taught around purple belt or sometimes even later. Just imagine if Armbars were taught at purple belt. Do you realize how many more injuries there would be in the sport of grappling? That's why i believe that the leg game should also be taught side by side from day one, along with everything else and not years later or even worse, forcing the grappler to learn on his own from videos and books and then going out to try them when he rolls.

If i have a gun and you don't, i have an unfair advantage; but if we both have a gun, then there is no advantage or disadvantage. I know this is an over simplification, but..eh..you get my point.