Why is sport jiu jitsu...

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by JerseyTrash, Apr 27, 2008.

  1. JerseyTrash

    JerseyTrash Silver Belt

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    Becoming so lame in regard to leglocks? Part of the reason I decided to start training jiu jitsu was because I always heard that it was the most effective form of fighting. Recently a purple belt in my school was DQed after slapping a knee bar on a guy in the PanAms. WTF is that about? The guy's been training for like 6 or 7 years and he's not allowed to use leglocks???
     
  2. Calibur

    Calibur Jiu Jitsu Snob

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    Because it breaks the curve.

    A person with a good leg lock game and nothing else could take out someone who has "great" jiu jitsu. That is a scary thought for people who have dedicated a good chunk of their lives to creating a good guard and learning how to pass it so they ban leg attacks under the pretense of safety until a new person has been practicing long enough so they don't emabarrass the experienced person with it.
     
  3. JerseyTrash

    JerseyTrash Silver Belt

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    That's pretty lame. I don't see how someone who doesn't know leglocks can consider themselves a "complete" grappler.
     
  4. stu3ufc**

    stu3ufc** Yoshihiro Akiyama

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    they should allow everything but heel hooks imo
     
  5. JerseyTrash

    JerseyTrash Silver Belt

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    Aren't heel hooks now banned at even the black belt level? What bullshit.
     
  6. Calc

    Calc White Belt

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    heel hooks are scary! I agree that all leglocks should be allowed though..learn to defend if nothing else..
     
  7. ijustwannasurf

    ijustwannasurf Brown Belt

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    Preach on, TS! I'm all about the leglocks. At blue belt you can't do anything but straight achilles, but a lot of heel hook set ups can lead to those too, so I train all sorts of leglock techniques.
     
  8. whipyourasstyle

    whipyourasstyle Exitus acta probat

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    I think this is a fair explanation, to an extent.

    I also think a lot of BJJ schools try to avoid teaching leg locks in the first few years because they are quite dangerous for inexperienced spazzes to be playing with, especially when some BJJ school owner/practitioner is trying to get a good student base going. I severely broken knee/ankle and then the school has a rep.
     
  9. ddime

    ddime White Belt

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    Having been put out of comission for over a year due to a heel hook induced injury, I am somewhat biased against them; but, i think other leg locks that allow for more time to tap should be allowed, at least for blues and up.
     
  10. domd

    domd Purple Belt

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    dont they ban submissions that effect the spine too?
     
  11. ShanghaiBJJ

    ShanghaiBJJ Brown Belt

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    Stop yer whiining already...:icon_chee

    It is just a fact that no grappling style can incorporated every facet of grappling and be strong at it.

    In teaching, one HAS to put an emphasis on some areas over others.

    If you wanna be a complete fighter, you HAVE to crosstrain. Sambo and Judo come to mind.

    The point is

    1) training is dictated by the rules of competition --> less leglocks.

    2) Competition rules should reflect the emphasis that the governing body has in designing the approach they feel best for the sport ----> leglocks are discouraged, so players develop a stronger passing game and guard game.

    If you wanna throw down leglocks, there are plenty of No Gi or Sambo tournaments where they are allowed.

    If you just wanna improve yourself at leglocks? Crosstrain.

    You are in BJJ class, because you wanna learn BJJ. Could they teach 1/3 guard work and passing, 1/3 Takedowns and 1/3 leglocks?

    Certainly, but would you be a better guard player after 5 years instead of training 5 years with the current emphasis? No, not at all.

    You can get to your leglocks all you want at brown and black and even specialize in them. But the current idea is that they are not VITAL to learn IN DEPTH at an early stage.

    I agree.
     
  12. FWTG

    FWTG Blue Belt

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    Why is it bullshit? Heelhooks are carreer enders and often something easy to fal back into if you cant pass a better grapplers guard. I personaly never even bothered to learn it yet as I dont plan on using it ever. Its kind of irritating when someone cant even pass your guard so they just jump into a heelhook which I will tap to immediatly before its even close to locked in lol.

    The only time I would consider using a heelhook would be in a life or death situation otherwise why risk crippling people and ending their carreers?
     
  13. PhillyD45

    PhillyD45 Orange Belt

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    I agree that heel hooks shouldn't be allowed in any game style matches except MMA. That is more of a "street" move...a permanent fight ender.

    I catch wrestle, the art which made the heel hook and toe hold famous. They are both basic holds in catch.

    Here's the problem: With a toe hold you can increase the pain for a tap, but for a heel hook even slight pressure can do extensive damage.

    There isn't a "sporting" defense to it.

    It is the most devistating hold in ALL the grappling arts (if you don't consider death from a choke).

    BOTTOM LINE: Heel hooks should only be used if attacked in a violent situation.
     
  14. DirectDrive

    DirectDrive Black Belt

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    jiu-jitsu doesn't allow leg locks at low level competition because people don't kearn the finer points of guard passing, they just go for leg locks. i did this with straight ankle locks for a while. Heel hooks are never allowed because of the friction that a gi causes. it is too hard to get out of.
    having said that..... some BJJ players do act like leg locks are the dim mak of grappling.
     
  15. Samurai Jack

    Samurai Jack faixa roxa

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    they arent now banned, hh were never allowed in bjj competition.
     
  16. Samurai Jack

    Samurai Jack faixa roxa

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    btw, it all depends from fighter to fighter - guys like Telles and Margarida go after leglocks even when the are ahed on points!
     
  17. Calibur

    Calibur Jiu Jitsu Snob

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    Yes they were.
     
  18. Xxcx

    Xxcx The Ghost With The Most

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    Are you serious? I was competing in NAGA, the other week, and people could and were trying to kneebar, heel-hook, and anklelock me. It was allowed in the adult divisions. In most tournaments I go to, it's definitely allowed in purple and above.
     
  19. Calibur

    Calibur Jiu Jitsu Snob

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    Thats why you have a coach, its their job to make them a balanced fighter. Some people have a good top game. Some a good bottom game. Some a leglock game. Everyone should be well rounded and the reason BJJers are all around better grapplers (IMO) than Judoka is because their lack of restrictions.

    Restricting the use of leglocks because of ego is counter productive to the sport.
     
  20. Jimmy Cerra

    Jimmy Cerra Amateur Fighter

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    According to my instructor, a long time ago, most leglocks were allowed in BJJ competitions. Twisting knee locks are now illegal when using the gi because they can get caught up in the gi material itself. This led to a number of people damaging their knees after the tap. So those kind of leglocks are now banned. This doesn't occur as often in Sambo as in BJJ because they generally wear shorts instead of long pants.

    I don't think leglocks break the curve. Surely someone training up to purple should have at least trained the defense to most common leglocks. If anything, they keep the guard guy from getting lazy. I do think kneebars and toeholds should be legal for purple and up. Besides that, I don't think there is much of a problem. They are generally legal in the advanced no-gi divisions along with twisting leglocks where your friend can also participate.
     

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