Why is Karate always the bad guy martial arts?

[Ogata]

They have no respect for Hongo, Akira or Sakaki , Shio.

Amen to that!

Hongo beat Michael who is a total badass scythe master. Shio is by far my favorite Ryo master. Karate got a lot of love in HSDK. I wished they had more Korean martial arts but all good. Aside from Sakaki sensei and Hongo, another guy I loved who got Nerfed like my man Michael is, Shinogi Kosho:




This dude is a legit badass that got fucked over so bad later in the series. He has a deadly style of karate called himokiri karate. This dude was brutal until he got demoted to a crappy punching bag. Best and scariest style of karate by far.

 

[Ezekiel 25:17]

They are always portrayed as evil martial arts. It doesn't even matter if karate man is white or Japanese or other ethnicity. They are always portrayed by evil characters.

Like here:







Respectful in reality:



Common man, karate teaches respect and decency.

The Chinese had issues with Japan, the US had issues with them. So for a while, yes, you should understand why they would be portrayed as such. I think Karate Kid shifted that in a big way. There was a huge surge of kids who took up karate in the 80s.


Oh wait...nevermind, i always wanted to be a part of cobra kai , lol

 

[Ogata]

The Chinese had issues with Japan, the US had issues with them. So for a while, yes, you should understand why they would be portrayed as such. I think Karate Kid shifted that in a big way. There was a huge surge of kids who took up karate in the 80s.


Oh wait...nevermind, i always wanted to be a part of cobra kai , lol

Cobra kai is the GOAT dojo in history of all dojos. That being said, I understand old movies but IP man is pretty recent movie as far as history goes and yet they are still trying to shit on karate and Japan as an evil force.

Mr. Miyagi was the first karateka who was shown as benevolent. Meanwhile in every show, karate masters are all evil.

 

[Bacco]

I thought these guys are trained in Satsu no Hado or Ansatsuken or something. Like its supposed to be its own style Gouken came up with.

Going by old original japanese Capcom material Ryu was supposed to be a judo guy to represent Japan, then they realized being a game with strikes (and -SF1- no throws lol) they made up Ansatsuken wich is supposed to be a mix of Karate, Judo and Taekwondo

But reality is within SF world Ansatsuken is essentially a style of Karate, closest would be Kyokushin (some martial arts are replaced in SF universe, example Matsuda Jujitsu -> Gracie Jujitsu)

SF1 Ryu-Ken whole story is based on a real interstyle tournament called "All-Japan Student Open Karate Championship" where two young students of Mas Oyama competed and were accepted fighters from other countries/styles, like an american boxer, a big grappler and and a couple of Muay Thai champions.
The final ended up with 19yo Oyama's student Tadashi Nakamura defeating a famous thai guy and becoming national hero in Japan.
In SF1 not only had these type of figures(1 boxer, 1 big guy, 2 thai), but canon wise it ends with Ryu defeating Sagat

Cool thing with SF5 they worked on differentiate Ryu and Ken animations and strikes, now Ryu have a way more japanese shotokan/Kyokushin style, while Ken remind much more '80s american kickboxing (wich was very karate based)

Its in English despite title, Gouken talks about the history and there is no mention of Shotokan or karate:

The tv show was nice, but is'nt canon

 

[Ogata]

Going by old original japanese Capcom material Ryu was supposed to be a judo guy to represent Japan, then they realized being a game with strikes (and -SF1- no throws lol) they made up Ansatsuken wich is supposed to be a mix of Karate, Judo and Taekwondo

But reality is within SF world Ansatsuken is essentially a style of Karate, closest would be Kyokushin (some martial arts are replaced in SF universe, example Matsuda Jujitsu -> Gracie Jujitsu)

SF1 Ryu-Ken whole story is based on a real interstyle tournament called "All-Japan Student Open Karate Championship" where two young students of Mas Oyama competed and were accepted fighters from other countries/styles, like an american boxer, a big grappler and and a couple of Muay Thai champions.
The final ended up with 19yo Oyama's student Tadashi Nakamura defeating a famous thai guy and becoming national hero in Japan.
In SF1 not only had these type of figures(1 boxer, 1 big guy, 2 thai), but canon wise it ends with Ryu defeating Sagat

Cool thing with SF5 they worked on differentiate Ryu and Ken animations and strikes, now Ryu have a way more japanese shotokan/Kyokushin style, while Ken remind much more '80s american kickboxing (wich was very karate based)

The tv show was nice, but is'nt canon

First thing first, I agree with you about their style of karate being closest to Kyokushin. I trained in various forms of Karate before becoming more settled in Tang Soo Do. In many styles of karate I trained, Ryu and Ken style is so much like Kyokushin. They even wear the paddings that Kyokushin fighters wear. Founder of Kyokushin karate was Korean ethnic wise and his style of karate is more diverse. Some say he trained in Taekkyon which is the ancient Korean martial art known for kicks and throws.

I never knew about Tadashi Nakamura. That makes so much sense now and pretty much a badass story.

It makes Ken to get in to American kickboxing which as you said is karate based. Based on timeline, kickboxing was 70s version of the UFC except martial artist wanted to see which striking art was the best. They realized their cardio sucked and decided to cross train in boxing which gave birth to western kick-boxing,

Ken's evolution of karate makes sense. But I don't know why Ryu would add shotokan techniques specifically in to his style. Is shotokan the IT style in Japan?

 

[Bacco]

Ken's evolution of karate makes sense. But I don't know why Ryu would add shotokan techniques specifically in to his style. Is shotokan the IT style in Japan?

Canon wise Ken now lives and train in america (San Francisco) and jump into tourneys wich are like vintage UFC but in a ring that are called generic "US Championship"

Wich are bit big deal in SF world as we know even who was previous Champion (Nash, who "died" back to SFA days)
So they westernized Ken even more (even if unlike most think Ken is'nt american, he's born-raised in Japan and only 25% american by mom side lol), for example they gave him standard boxing as basic punches

Give Ryu very "japanese" looking stuff giving him poses classic of Karate styles was i guess mostly to further differentiate them... like if Ken gone 10 steps left, you double that distance by moving Ryu 10 steps right
Ryu in that way appear the tradition guy, have some strikes that feel very "kata" next to some more scrappy Kyokushin looking stuff
The more traditional/clean stuff feels kinda shotokan looking to me, but tbh i'm not much a Karate guy myself (did boxing/kickboxing) so maybe it could have some different sub-style influence too

It's also likely current Ryu one is supposed to represent the classic style as was taught to them and he stick to it(aside occasional new stuff he develop himself), while Ken is more a "rebel" into adapt it to his needs/style and mix it with other stuff he likes

It's cool because at this point they basically incarnate Karate that stayed and evolved in Japan and Karate that went overseas and transformed itself by western "contamination"

Also Ryu favor defense with single heavy strikes/counters and Ken attack with fast combinations so it's bit fitting former became all about strong old school japan well planted positions, while latter instant loved dynamism of western light footwork

As the local fanatic of Cobra Kai show, you should LOVE the Ryu/Defense/Japan and Ken/Attack/Murica! thing, as at this point you have same shit of Daniel-Johnny lol
Except Ryu is supposed to be tougher and heavier puncher than Ken, while Ken is more the speed guy who loves kicks (plus is the one with lot money hot wife lol)

 

[StonedLemur]

That's because those examples are Hong Kong/Chinese martial arts/kung fu movies. Kung Fu is Chinese, while karate is Japanese, and you know the history between those two countries

Historical answer...+2

 

[Ogata]

Canon wise Ken now lives and train in america (San Francisco) and jump into tourneys wich are like vintage UFC but in a ring that are called generic "US Championship"

Wich are bit big deal in SF world as we know even who was previous Champion (Nash, who "died" back to SFA days)
So they westernized Ken even more (even if unlike most think Ken is'nt american, he's born-raised in Japan and only 25% american by mom side lol), for example they gave him standard boxing as basic punches

Give Ryu very "japanese" looking stuff giving him poses classic of Karate styles was i guess mostly to further differentiate them... like if Ken gone 10 steps left, you double that distance by moving Ryu 10 steps right
Ryu in that way appear the tradition guy, have some strikes that feel very "kata" next to some more scrappy Kyokushin looking stuff
The more traditional/clean stuff feels kinda shotokan looking to me, but tbh i'm not much a Karate guy myself (did boxing/kickboxing) so maybe it could have some different sub-style influence too

It's also likely current Ryu one is supposed to represent the classic style as was taught to them and he stick to it(aside occasional new stuff he develop himself), while Ken is more a "rebel" into adapt it to his needs/style and mix it with other stuff he likes

It's cool because at this point they basically incarnate Karate that stayed and evolved in Japan and Karate that went overseas and transformed itself by western "contamination"

Also Ryu favor defense with single heavy strikes/counters and Ken attack with fast combinations so it's bit fitting former became all about strong old school japan well planted positions, while latter instant loved dynamism of western light footwork

As the local fanatic of Cobra Kai show, you should LOVE the Ryu/Defense/Japan and Ken/Attack/Murica! thing, as at this point you have same shit of Daniel-Johnny lol
Except Ryu is supposed to be tougher and heavier puncher than Ken, while Ken is more the speed guy who loves kicks (plus is the one with lot money hot wife lol)

Just before I share my opinion, I just want to say that I am more well versed in Korean Karate which is my forte. But aside from that, I always felt like Ryu is more of a Okinawan karateka. In Okinawa, they use Hojo undō as their physical exercise. Also the Okinawans believe in small class setting while the Japanese believe in big classes and wide spread of the art as oppose to being more exclusive. Hence the Antaskuen style which is very rare and not mass produced.

Hence why you see tons of Shotokan and Kyokushin around as oppose to Okinawan style karate. This also makes it far more accurate with Miyagi/cobra kai comparison. Mr. Miyagi was not in the business of selling his karate and it was taught to those who needed as oppose to those who want it. I assume Gouken and his master goetsue are also similar to Mr. Miyagi.

Ken makes perfect sense. He is the embodiment of the old school American saying which is "America is a melting pot of ideas and culture" and to me Ken is very consistent and he makes perfect sense. I see Ken as a mix of Daniel and Terry to be honest. Terry is just the dark side of Daniel. Both had the same docile personality. Both became very successful and both have shown ruthlessness and levelheadedness. Daniel jacking up Johnny's rent and not caring about other business owners being affected by it while Terry has shown that he wants to help kids be winners and puts forth effort to taming the monster from within.

 

[Randlewand]

Karate has always seemed like the good guy in US media

 

[armbarforhire]

Cobra kai is the GOAT dojo in history of all dojos. That being said, I understand old movies but IP man is pretty recent movie as far as history goes and yet they are still trying to shit on karate and Japan as an evil force.

Mr. Miyagi was the first karateka who was shown as benevolent. Meanwhile in every show, karate masters are all evil.

Not true, Black belt Jones was a good guy, all the Chuck Norris films were he was the main guy he was good.

US has been benevolent with karate practitioners (at the very least neutral), with the exception of Bruce Lee films for reasons mentioned before and even the american made Enter the Dragon had 2 main good guys being karate practitioners.

I guess the only thing Miyagi was probably first was in being the first asian good guy Karate man in american films.

 

[Phlog]

Japan is to Asia what England is to America. The colonial power. The big bad from the past.

 

[Phlog]

, while Ken remind much more '80s american kickboxing (wich was very karate based)

I was under the impression that it was taekwondo that had mostly given birth to American kickboxing? From the Korean occupation etc.

 

[rob mafia]

this thread is really weird and takes street fighter really seriously.

 

[Bacco]

Just before I share my opinion, I just want to say that I am more well versed in Korean Karate which is my forte. But aside from that, I always felt like Ryu is more of a Okinawan karateka. In Okinawa, they use Hojo undō as their physical exercise. Also the Okinawans believe in small class setting while the Japanese believe in big classes and wide spread of the art as oppose to being more exclusive. Hence the Antaskuen style which is very rare and not mass produced.

Hence why you see tons of Shotokan and Kyokushin around as oppose to Okinawan style karate. This also makes it far more accurate with Miyagi/cobra kai comparison. Mr. Miyagi was not in the business of selling his karate and it was taught to those who needed as oppose to those who want it. I assume Gouken and his master goetsue are also similar to Mr. Miyagi.

Okinawa smaller scale and rural life style(Ryu/Ken dojo is not on an island though) gave something for sure, but on reality Kyokushin is still main influence

Gouken encouraged his students to partecipate the inter-style tournament, whole SF1 as said took inspiration from these events of Kyokushin history
Also while Ryu live/train mostly in Japan his main gimmick as character is him who travel the world to challenge in their own style/country champions of different disciplines, something that Oyama was famous for

Even Sagat himself have two inspirations both linked to Kyokushin: one is him (and Adon) being the two thai guys of the tournament and him being the loser finalist, the other is ever sagat being based on manga (about Mas life) appearance of "Black Cobra", a Thai champion that Oyama defeated, this guy

Capcom artists also based the style stance on used by Kyokushin, often took inspiration from Oyama for Ryu poses and iirc even the sleeve-less gi was inspired by Andy Hug and tons of other stuff like that
Basically Capcom ever took inspiration from Kyokushin imagery to make up Ansatsuken

Only true deviation is that original inspiration for Ken was Benny "The Jet" Urquidez, as he was drawn in a manga by same guy who made Oyama's manga above

But overal whole influence on Capcom artists was the imagery of Kyokushin guys being the ones that challenge rest of the world with their Karate making Japan proud, wich was a thing back then... apparently japan/karate were getting their butt kicked by foreigners so the image of Oyama and Nakamura gave them teh hype (knowing them, likely Nakamura more for being 100% jap)
Patriotic shit was strong element in SF, not casual Ryu main colors are white with bit of red, he's born as a walking japan flag lol

 

[Bacco]

I was under the impression that it was taekwondo that had mostly given birth to American kickboxing? From the Korean occupation etc.

To be honest being euro american kickboxing ever been bit obscure shit till i got teh internet lol
From what i ever been told kickboxing difference between american and us euros is that american style for kicks was karate based while our is more thai based. May be a local thing, but all istructors i had here ever talked about use hip/throw kicks in the "thai" way
I think was something about dutch and thailand having long history

Just googled on wikipedia for american kickboxing and seem to confirm Karate base origin:

American kickboxing originated in the 1970s and was brought to prominence in September 1974, when the Professional Karate Association (PKA) held the first World Championships.

Essentially from what i understand in the 70s in USA you had "full contact karate" and from there i guess the influence of western boxing generated american kickboxing, ever using wiki

A second full contact karate competition format is American full contact karate which was developed in USA during early 70s by borrowing rules, settings and gloves from western boxing, and adapting it. It is continuous fighting, where the bout is not broken for scoring, but point scores are summed up at the end of the bout.

It had its origin when Joe Lewis, a traditional Shorin Ryu black belt, was disappointed with scoring in point karate and wanted to prove martial artists could fight to a knockout. For his role in promoting and organizing the first full contact bout, Joe Lewis is considered the father of American full contact karate and full contact kickboxing

I guess boxing gloves, KOs encouraged and many that probably knew boxing too made punching in these competitions very boxing like to the point it became it's own thing

 

[XmarkX]

Because Wonderboy is too nice , and in nature a balance must exist, so there is no more room for kindness or niceness in karate.

 

[Phlog]

To be honest being euro american kickboxing ever been bit obscure shit till i got teh internet lol
From what i ever been told kickboxing difference between american and us euros is that american style for kicks was karate based while our is more thai based. May be a local thing, but all istructors i had here ever talked about use hip/throw kicks in the "thai" way
I think was something about dutch and thailand having long history

Just googled on wikipedia for american kickboxing and seem to confirm Karate base origin:


Essentially from what i understand in the 70s in USA you had "full contact karate" and from there i guess the influence of western boxing generated american kickboxing, ever using wiki


I guess boxing gloves, KOs encouraged and many that probably knew boxing too made punching in these competitions very boxing like to the point it became it's own thing

Yeah my mistake TKD basically came out of karate like kickboxing did. WWII vets coming home and bringing it with em.

 

[SaiWa]

Cobra kai is the GOAT dojo in history of all dojos. That being said, I understand old movies but IP man is pretty recent movie as far as history goes and yet they are still trying to shit on karate and Japan as an evil force.

Mr. Miyagi was the first karateka who was shown as benevolent. Meanwhile in every show, karate masters are all evil.

I am sorry but why are you even questioning this? There is no lost love between the Chinese and Japanese back in the day and Ip Man lived during that era (2nd Sino Chinese War / WW II). Of course they'd glamorize his life and use it to prop up Chinese pride and portray almost anything Japanese as bad and evil.

Did you want Chinese to make movies putting Japanese in a better light during that era? Google Nanjing Massacre and learn a bit of history maybe? My grandparents (and anyone from that era) HATED Japanese people because of what they've done back in WW2.

 

[Misanthropist]

I see China-Japanese history has been explained but as an anime fan, I have noticed Karate isn’t shown much. They always show Samurai, Judo and all that kind of sword fighting. Why?

 

[Mr Mojo Lane]

Cause Bruce Lee