Why is child birth 100% a woman's choice?

[DannyNL]

I get that it's the woman's body, she's the one who has to carry the child and rearrange her life for those 9 months, and go through the physical effects and risks of child birth. This has to be respected, of course.

For the record I am pro choice. But when I hear people talking about why pro choice is important, they bring up a lot of different philosophical and economic questions to justify abortion. What if the mother decides she's not ready to be a mother? What if the mother decides that she doesn't want to devote the time to being a mother? What if the mother decides she's too poor to raise a child?

But don't these questions also pertain to the father? What if he's not ready to be a dad, or is living below the poverty line and can't afford it? As we know, the father is on the hook for that child as well and the choice of whether or not to have an abortion carries significant repercussions to his life as well.

Is it fair to adopt the attitude of "well it's her body so it's her choice, all you did was shoot a load in her, she's the one that has to give birth, you don't get a say in the matter", etc, and diminish the father's role in the pregnancy, and then when the baby is born switch that attitude to "hey buddy, you're on the hook for this, you're half of this equation, it takes two to tango you know." Going from being some random cock with no say to being a 50% partner with all the responsibilities it comes with.

 

[Pwent]

i am pro choice even though im morally opposed to abortion


i just think if women are able to have abortions, then men should be able to opt out of parenting too. for example, a man could serve her with a notice saying he waives all rights to the child, and be free from child support payments and responsibilities, should the woman carry out the pregnancy. If women can force men to be fathers after they want the baby aborted, then men should be able to block the abortion if they want to be fathers.

 

[snakedafunky]

What do you think your Dad or Grandfather would say if you explained to them you want to serve some papers to get out of paying for your child?
Now strengthening fathers rights to get custody I am all for it.
But not be willing to pay for your child is a pussy move.

Because you are the man. If you do the crime you do the time.

 

[HomerThompson]

I get that it's the woman's body, she's the one who has to carry the child and rearrange her life for those 9 months, and go through the physical effects and risks of child birth. This has to be respected, of course.

For the record I am pro choice. But when I hear people talking about why pro choice is important, they bring up a lot of different philosophical and economic questions to justify abortion. What if the mother decides she's not ready to be a mother? What if the mother decides that she doesn't want to devote the time to being a mother? What if the mother decides she's too poor to raise a child?

But don't these questions also pertain to the father? What if he's not ready to be a dad, or is living below the poverty line and can't afford it? As we know, the father is on the hook for that child as well and the choice of whether or not to have an abortion carries significant repercussions to his life as well.

Is it fair to adopt the attitude of "well it's her body so it's her choice, all you did was shoot a load in her, she's the one that has to give birth, you don't get a say in the matter", etc, and diminish the father's role in the pregnancy, and then when the baby is born switch that attitude to "hey buddy, you're on the hook for this, you're half of this equation, it takes two to tango you know." Going from being some random cock with no say to being a 50% partner with all the responsibilities it comes with.

Because it's what's best for society. A woman has a right to control her own body. If she chooses to have the child, it's best for the kid and for society for the father to be as responsible as he can be made to be. If you want to run away from taking care of your child you can go live in some shithole country or on a deserted island.

 

[Deleted member 499399]

I get that it's the woman's body, she's the one who has to carry the child and rearrange her life for those 9 months, and go through the physical effects and risks of child birth. This has to be respected, of course.

For the record I am pro choice. But when I hear people talking about why pro choice is important, they bring up a lot of different philosophical and economic questions to justify abortion. What if the mother decides she's not ready to be a mother? What if the mother decides that she doesn't want to devote the time to being a mother? What if the mother decides she's too poor to raise a child?

But don't these questions also pertain to the father? What if he's not ready to be a dad, or is living below the poverty line and can't afford it? As we know, the father is on the hook for that child as well and the choice of whether or not to have an abortion carries significant repercussions to his life as well.

Is it fair to adopt the attitude of "well it's her body so it's her choice, all you did was shoot a load in her, she's the one that has to give birth, you don't get a say in the matter", etc, and diminish the father's role in the pregnancy, and then when the baby is born switch that attitude to "hey buddy, you're on the hook for this, you're half of this equation, it takes two to tango you know." Going from being some random cock with no say to being a 50% partner with all the responsibilities it comes with.

You think a man should be able to force her to have an abortion?

 

[sirtapsalot]

If men had a choice then there would be no more babies.

 

[rpn453]

I think the fetus is the woman's property and she should be able to do whatever she wants with it, while the man should be able to legally choose before the birth whether he wants to provide any support or have any involvement in the situation.

 

[CableandThanos]

My body, my rights, my choice, your (the man) money!!!!

The gov will never let that happen because if the man opts out and the woman keeps it, she goes on gov assistance. The gov will always try to get the guy to pay so that they dont have to if at all possible.

Would it be Fair and give the woman more information before making a decision (if there was an opt out clause) YES, buy we all know Life and dealing with the gov is not always Fair.

 

[Leroy Jenkins]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ibilities-child-Swedish-Liberal-proposal.html

Fathers will be able to choose a 'legal abortion' up until the 18th week of pregnancy which would cut any lawful responsibilities for the child under Swedish Liberal proposal

I agree.

 

[Pwent]

What do you think your Dad or Grandfather would say if you explained to them you want to serve some papers to get out of paying for your child?
Now strengthening fathers rights to get custody I am all for it.
But not be willing to pay for your child is a pussy move.

Because you are the man. If you do the crime you do the time.

my dad would want me to pay the child because its the morally correct thing to do

my dad would also never allow his kids to get an abortion because its a morally wrong thing to do

unfortunately, we cant govern based on what my dad would want, we have to go by fairness and give people the opportunity to act in a morally correct way. otherwise, its a short road to fascism

 

[Seano]

i am pro choice even though im morally opposed to abortion


i just think if women are able to have abortions, then men should be able to opt out of parenting too. for example, a man could serve her with a notice saying he waives all rights to the child, and be free from child support payments and responsibilities, should the woman carry out the pregnancy. If women can force men to be fathers after they want the baby aborted, then men should be able to block the abortion if they want to be fathers.

I agree with a lot of what you say Pwent, but that is a horrible idea. I think we've seen enough of what happens when children are not cared for in this country.

Fathers should be shamed for not supporting their children. Men can practice self control too. If you can't handle the responsibility of a kid, then make sure you don't knock someone up.

 

[Pwent]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ibilities-child-Swedish-Liberal-proposal.html






I agree.

exactly. its the fairest option, though i wouldnt respect someone who did it

 

[oldshadow]

Well medical is going to take that choice away from women unless big pharmaceutical finds a way to kill it off as it cuts into their money.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/09/09/we-ll-have-male-birth-control-by-2017.html

 

[AviatorShades]

Yeah, I don't think they realize how much damage they do to their own cause by throwing out the "It's HER choice, it's HER body, it's HER child!" stuff.

It's just not true. Not on a biological nor sociological level. The father plays an equally critical role before and after the pregnancy.

It's an attempt to tuck abortion under the feminist umbrella. It promotes feminism while turning people against abortion because the argument is so fundamentally dumb and insulting to prospective fathers. It also brings massive legal double standards to light regarding the father's lack of say in abortion + financial obligations.

Being a pro-choice right-winger, I'd like to steer them towards arguments that will make the public say "Hmmm..." instead of just cringe.

Such as the timeless and classic "What do you get out of encouraging people you can't stand to begin with to have 20 neglected children?" However this just isn't how leftists tend to think. Direct logic is shunned for its triteness.

 

[Unsurprised Diaz]

Men invest 10 seconds while women invest 9 months and this is only in the mechanics -- women could be investing 18 years or more in the raising while men sometimes don't invest anything in this area.

Besides possession is nine-tenths the law.

 

[spin]

Yeah, I don't think they realize how much damage they do to their own cause by throwing out the "It's HER choice, it's HER body, HER child!" stuff.

It's just not true. Not on a biological nor sociological level. The father plays an equally critical role before and after the pregnancy.

It's an attempt to tuck abortion under the feminist umbrella. It promotes feminism while turning people against abortion because it's so dumb and insulting to prospective fathers.

Being a pro-choice right-winger I'd like to steer them towards arguments that will make the public say "Hmmm..." instead of just cringe. Such as the timeless and classic "What do you get out of people you can't stand to begin with having 20 neglected children?"

It's not all that blah blah, it's really a fair play argument.


For this reason, let someone try to tell ME what I can and can't do with my body. Fuuuck off.


So while it's not that cut and dry, I get it.

 

[Islam Imamate]

i am pro choice even though im morally opposed to abortion


i just think if women are able to have abortions, then men should be able to opt out of parenting too. for example, a man could serve her with a notice saying he waives all rights to the child, and be free from child support payments and responsibilities, should the woman carry out the pregnancy. If women can force men to be fathers after they want the baby aborted, then men should be able to block the abortion if they want to be fathers.

I think that is a way to make the situation more equal so its certainly a fair proposal to put forward to a feminist but I don't necessarily believe in gender equality personally. I prefer the father be on the hook because single parent households are primarily worse because they tend to be poor and this sort of law would only make them even poorer.

If a man does not want to pay child support he should not impregnate a woman he doesn't want to raise a child with. I get that its sort of unfair that the woman has more options to opt out of an unwanted pregnancy but life ain't fair.

 

[AviatorShades]

It's not all that blah blah, it's really a fair play argument.


For this reason, let someone try to tell ME what I can and can't do with my body. Fuuuck off.


So while it's not that cut and dry, I get it.

Pure emotional repulsion to the forfeiture of your physical independence following conception doesn't even constitute an argument. The "it's her body!" thing borders on being an argument, but it doesn't stand up to biological or legal scrutiny. The offspring is only half "her's" and the father's legal/financial obligations depend solely on the mother's decision. Even if he wants the child and is able to provide for it luxuriously, he has little say.

Again, I am pro-choice. This just isn't the road to go down. It's third-wave feminism attempting to use abortion as a Trojan Horse. Focus on the universal social benefits of fewer unwanted children and slowing the expansion of slums. Don't anger neutral observers by marginalizing fatherhood and highlighting the immaturity of western females.

When right-wing debate wizards reach out to you tongueless toilet-paper looters and offer you advice, by God take it.

 

[RockstarChris]

If having or not having a child is the womans choice then, the father shouldn't have to pay any child support if he does not want to have the kid.

But of course that is way too logical for our idiotic world to fathom.

 

[spin]

Pure emotional repulsion to the forfeiture of your physical independence following conception doesn't even constitute an argument. The "it's her body!" thing borders on being an argument, but it doesn't stand up to biological or legal scrutiny. The offspring is only half "her's" and the father's legal/financial obligations depend solely on the mother's decision. Even if he wants the child and is able to provide for it luxuriously, he has little say.

Again, I am pro-choice. This just isn't the road to go down. It's third-wave feminism attempting to use abortion as a Trojan Horse. Focus on the universal social benefits of fewer unwanted children and slowing the expansion of slums. Don't anger neutral observers by marginalizing fatherhood and highlighting the immaturity of western females.

When right-wing debate wizards reach out to you tongueless toilet-paper looters and offer you advice, by God take it.

Lots of blah blah, but no counter.

Not gonna work on me