Why Does the Head and Arm Throw Work in WMMA?

[D'z]

Those aren't even all the same technique.

 

[BabyBlue_Bomber]

I always thought it had something to do with their hair…

Even when both fighters are sweaty, the hair would make it difficult to slip their head out from under a headlock.

 

[MrKontakos]

There are plenty of headthrows in male mma. Cub Swanson is pretty good at them in particular.

 

[D4C]

1) It's a high risk throw in MMA as you have to turn your back against your opponent. If you fail the throw, your opponent just takes your back and you'll get RNC'd. Of course, you tend to lose your position in nearly any failed throw.
2) Very few fighters have greco roman as their wrestling base. Freestyle and folkstyle wrestlers tend to have different fundamentals with emphasis on single- and double leg takedowns, which leads to the lack of throws. Fighters that throw a lot in MMA tend to have a judo base.
3) It's very hard throw to pull off against an adult male. You have to lead your opponent into the throw and use their momentum to your advantage. Timing the throw is very hard, because your opponent have to be almost completely off balance.

 

[kingghidrah]

2) Very few fighters have greco roman as their wrestling base. Freestyle and folkstyle wrestlers tend to have different fundamentals with emphasis on single- and double leg takedowns, which leads to the abundance of throws. Fighters that throw a lot in MMA tend to have a judo base.

what? how is there an abundance of throws due to lack of greco stylists, did you mean dearth? paucity? rarity?

 

[Only Here for Attachments]

Lower talent level and systemic lack of depth

 

[TempleoftheDog]

Different center of gravity.

 

[Prologue]

Curious if this thread is related to the ridiculous takedowns we saw in the Leah McCourt vs Janay Harding fight in Bellator yesterday. Some of the laziest attempts that actually were successful half the time.

 

[EndlessCritic]

Cub Swanson liked it a lot.

 

[Gamer2k4]

Its a power related throw...the woman pulling it off seem to have a strength advantage over there opponents ..

We just dont see these kinds of strength differences in mens MMA... otherwise wed see it more...its definitely been done in mens MMA years though

It's not power at all. It's all leverage, and a head throw is one of the easiest throws to pull off against an unskilled opponent for that reason. You grab their head and lean forward. They flop over your hips, and that's that.

The reason it doesn't work in men's MMA is that no one is going to let you get in that deep on them to start the throw. Not so with WMMA.

3) It's very hard throw to pull off against an adult male. You have to lead your opponent into the throw and use their momentum to your advantage. Timing the throw is very hard, because your opponent have to be almost completely off balance.

That's true of most judo throws, but not of head throws. The head throw is something we learned in high school wrestling as a "if you're way behind and about to lose, try this" technique. It's hard to get in on, especially against a person ready for it, but once you have that grip on them, there's not a lot they can do except come along for the ride.

 

[MCS]

Lack of Judo in general. Akiyama, Karo, Lombard and some others. Few of good Judo guys. It's almost always collegiate wrestlers, boxers, TMA strikers or BJJ guys. Some Sambo, guys from Dagestan. Yet those guys made the throw very effective.

 

[Paolo Delutis]

It's not power at all. It's all leverage, and a head throw is one of the easiest throws to pull off against an unskilled opponent for that reason. You grab their head and lean forward. They flop over your hips, and that's that.

The reason it doesn't work in men's MMA is that no one is going to let you get in that deep on them to start the throw. Not so with WMMA.



That's true of most judo throws, but not of head throws. The head throw is something we learned in high school wrestling as a "if you're way behind and about to lose, try this" technique. It's hard to get in on, especially against a person ready for it, but once you have that grip on them, there's not a lot they can do except come along for the ride.

It depends if the hips are involved or not...

Alot of them are done but just grabbing and pulling the opponent over or drag em that's power...

The ones where guys or girls are getting there.hip in and pulling and lifting ( the right away to do it)...then yes its leverage and its more powerful and uses less energy to do ..

 

[FIghtxIQ]

Male fighters try this move as well. It all depends. Most people go for trips, or a bodylock takedown attemp, or a double/single leg instead. Sometimes they go for hip toss or throws similar to this. Sometimes it works, sometimes they get their back taken, sometimes they just both fall with no one getting an advantage and they will let go and start scrambling. Most people do similar throws but they try and control an arm/wrist or have a whizzer.

 

[Fluffernutter]

Maybe because many male MMAers have a background in wrestling and can see a head and arm coming from a mile away.

Whereas many female MMAers have a background in striking, so a head and arm isn't defended as easily.

 

[You Will Vote For Dreyga]

I can't remember the last time a man got a head and arm toss yet in WMMA it happens in every fight. I'm sure many males could do that but would expose their back which is a big reason why it isn't used. In WMMA the women seem to toss them right into head arm side control and the person getting thrown seems complexly off guard. Randa Markos is one of the stand outs for me who executes primarily head arm throws for takedowns yet some of her opponents still get taken down with them without attempting to take the back. Valentina also uses this throw pretty much as her primary takedown but she might just be that strong.

Women have lower upper body strength so the rely on leverage to take people down

 

[MMAProfessional]

Curious if this thread is related to the ridiculous takedowns we saw in the Leah McCourt vs Janay Harding fight in Bellator yesterday. Some of the laziest attempts that actually were successful half the time.

I try to watch Bellator but they have a lot of fighter who have two fights. It ends up being background noise unless there is a big even. I caught the Mr.Vanzant vs Edwards fight and it was unbearable.

 

[textwarrior]

I can't remember the last time a man got a head and arm toss yet in WMMA it happens in every fight. I'm sure many males could do that but would expose their back which is a big reason why it isn't used. In WMMA the women seem to toss them right into head arm side control and the person getting thrown seems complexly off guard. Randa Markos is one of the stand outs for me who executes primarily head arm throws for takedowns yet some of her opponents still get taken down with them without attempting to take the back. Valentina also uses this throw pretty much as her primary takedown but she might just be that strong.

I seen them here and there but not all the time.

 

[MMAProfessional]

Women have lower upper body strength so the rely on leverage to take people down

Seems like they have a bad sense of where their weight is. A lot of the times they don't even get their leg behind to increase their leverage just muscle a head throw.

 

[FIGHTING TALK]

Skill disparity multiplied by their proportionately enormous heads plus longer arms.

The grappling is so basic in WMMA, purple belt level in the women’s game gives you the kind of edge only Demian Maia can attest to in the men’s game.
Blue belt in WMMA is basically brown or black belt in MMA.

You often see horrible day one blunders, eg very basic wrist control setup armbars from closed guard.

 

[MMAProfessional]

Skill disparity multiplied by their proportionately enormous heads plus longer arms.

The grappling is so basic in WMMA, purple belt level in the women’s game gives you the kind of edge only Demian Maia can attest to.
You often see horrible day one blunders, eg very basic wrist control setup armbars from closed guard.

Most of their BJJ is unbearable too. Watching Lee submit Shevchenko was torturous.