Why does MMA judging always feel so wrong?

[Koro_11]

Why is it that they all just kinda accept the lame and obviously flawed system that's in place, and why does there seem to be no urgency whatsoever to tweak it into something that makes more sense?

Last nights main event was so bizarre for me, it was probably the best example of just how flawed the criteria is, you sat there and watched a fight where it was obvious that one guy was getting the better of the other guy, yet at the same time because you understand the system you just knew that the guy who was getting his ass handed to him was actually winning on the score cards.

Post fight we all kinda unanimously agreed that Erceg is the better fighter, who did all the damage and looked like the winner throughout the fight, but blew it because he lost the grappling position in the final minute of the fight.

And we just kinda accept it, we've been watching it for so long that we're perfectly OK with lying to ourselves and pretending that the guy who managed to hold certain grappling positions for about 20% of the fight while doing virtually zero damage, won despite actually getting his ass kicked from start to finish.

It's just really stupid, it's always been really really stupid, but last night's example perfectly demonstrates just how stupid it is.

By the way, I had no dog in that fight and zero preference who wins, I like both guys just the same if I'm honest, but I couldn't say with a straight face that Pantoja won that fight, while I could easily admit that he probably did enough to get the decision based on the current UFC judging criteria.

That's a big problem IMO, when in this sport the guy who we all know clearly lost the "fight", can easily make a case that he won the "decision", that's a big problem.

 

[Only Here for Attachments]

We've been conditioned by the president of the company to accept that judges are horrible as a distraction to the blatant rigging that takes place.

 

[loisestrad]

Any judging feels wrong. In each and every sport. Cuz judging is, what do they call it, subjective. It isn't right or wrong, it isn't in or out, it's ... maybe in, maybe out, maybe right or maybe wrong.

Ever watched a movie and you loved it, only to find out that some other people didn't love it, in fact they hated it?

That's what subjective is all about. Some people just don't get your perspective, they don't see what you do.

And vice versa. Which is latin for subjective.

 

[CrimsonFan]

Something we all do as fans in a fight like this, is when an underdog we didn't give much of a chance starts to do really well.. it's hard not to start rooting for them.


I think pretty much everyone expected Pantoja to have his way with Ergec and thats not what happened. It's easy to get caught up in the moment and be biased as to what's really going on.

Pantoja is also a seasoned vet at this points and fights in a way to score rounds. If the fights were scored differently he would adjust. He did what he had to do to win.

 

[Koro_11]

Any judging feels wrong. In each and every sport. Cuz judging is, what do they call it, subjective. It isn't right or wrong, it isn't in or out, it's ... maybe in, maybe out, maybe right or maybe wrong.

Ever watched a movie and you loved it, only to find out that some other people didn't love it, in fact they hated it?

That's what subjective is all about. Some people just don't get your perspective, they don't see what you do.

And vice versa. Which is latin for subjective.

What you're saying is true in many cases, it makes sense in close decisions where both guys did comparable damage, comparable control, etc.

To me it doesn't ring true at all in this case because there's not much debate, everyone seems to be in agreement that Pantoja was the one who got his ass kicked, but Erceg is the one who lost because he lost that position and got held down for a few minutes.

If this was a school yard fight, if this was two bears or lions going at it in the wild, it would be very clear and obvious to everyone with IQ above room temperature that the lion who lost is the one with chunks of his face torn off, the kid who lost in the playground is the one that's bleeding all over the place and holding on for dear life and waiting for the teacher to break it up... it's actually not that subjective and we all know it instinctively.

I just don't understand why they insist with this nonsensical criteria where holding someone down while doing nothing for two minutes, beats absorbing blunt force trauma and getting your face sliced open??

 

[jeff7b9]

It's a sport with rules and scoring criteria.

Based on those criteria I think you give 1 and 5 to Pantoja, and I had 2 and 4 to Erceg.

So round 3...

More landed strikes and some grappling vs one really damaging shot.

Was it enough?
Enough to outweigh the volume?
Enough to take a round off a brazillian champ at home?
Judges said no.


____________

You can make a case for Erceg 234.

I am not sure it is the correct score.
It is debatable at best. (As current rules are written)

________

I havent rewatched, but my impression live was that Pantoja did literally ZERO damage with all of his grappling exchanges he was "winning."

So I can understand the frustration.
But also, I tend to think by the written rules Pantoja did win.

It is what it is. Thankfully the sport is changing towards a damage first scoring but it isn't gonna just flip 180 overnight.

 

[Koro_11]

It's a sport with rules and scoring criteria.

Based on those criteria I think you give 1 and 5 to Pantoja, and I had 2 and 4 to Erceg.

So round 3...

More landed strikes and some grappling vs one really damaging shot.

Was it enough?
Enough to outweight the volume?
Enough to take a round off a brazillian champ at home?
Judges said no.

You can make a case for Erceg 234.

But I am not sure it is the correct score.
It is debatable at best.

I don't disagree with any of that, but I think you missed my point.

I'm telling you that I myself scored it for Pantoja knowing what the scoring criteria is, but it feels silly because I know that the guy who lost the decision actually won the fight and quite convincingly.

I'm not criticizing the decision, I'm criticizing the nonsensical criteria which makes it possible.

 

[Flower2dPeople]

 

[Khaosan]

Lots of coping going on today.

 

[ElLunico]

That fight was close and dumbass went for a TD that cost him the 5th round.

There's been a lot of fights than looked like the wrong guy won, that wasn't one of them.

 

[jeff7b9]

I don't disagree with any of that, but I think you missed my point.

I'm telling you that I myself scored it for Pantoja knowing what the scoring criteria is, but it feels silly because I know that the guy who lost the decision actually won the fight and quite convincingly.

I'm not criticizing the decision, I'm criticizing the nonsensical criteria which makes it possible.

I hear ya amigo...

What is it that you want?
Just blowing off steam?

Like ol Max says:
--> (it is what it is) <--


You have a systemic issue.
That type of thing is SLOW to change.

As much as we want it to be a "fight" in order for it to be a sanctioned professional business, it needs to he a sport. As long as it is a sport it will have rules, which everyone knows ahead of time, and fighters are competing for a "win."

Pantoja did what he had to do to keep his belt and his championship level pay.
Hard to blame him.

Erceg had the title in his hands and DERPED it away like a goddamn retard, trying to takedown a grappler in the deciding round. If anything be mad at his corner for being the biggest retards to ever tard.

 

[Koro_11]

That fight was close and dumbass went for a TD that cost him the 5th round.

There's been a lot of fights than looked like the wrong guy won, that wasn't one of them.

Except "the fight" wasn't very close at all.

 

[Koro_11]

I hear ya amigo...

What is it that you want?
Just blowing off steam?

Like ol Max says:
--> (it is what it is) <--


You have a systemic issue.
That type of thing is SLOW to change.

As much as we want it to be a "fight" in order for it to be a sanctioned professional business, it needs to he a sport. As long as it is a sport it will have rules, which everyone knows ahead of time, and fighters are competing for a "win."

Pantoja did what he had to do to keep his belt and his championship level pay.
Hard to blame him.

Erceg had the title in his hands and DERPED it away like a goddamn retard, trying to takedown a grappler in the deciding round. If anything be mad at his corner for being the biggest retards to ever tard.

Again, don't disagree with any of that, and didn't really care who won it, I like both fighters just the same so not at all mad about one guy beating the other, just watching it as a neutral fan and noticing a very flawed system.

And yeah I'm ok with SLOOOOOW change, but how fucken slow do they need? UFC has been around for over 3 decades ffs, I've seen zero changes every since they started this stupid boxing system.

 

[ElLunico]

Except "the fight" wasn't very close at all.

Wow Ercegs corner must be dumbasses then and you must be coaching high level fighters. Cause they definitely didn't think dummy was that far ahead lol. The fuck

Was it 4-0 in your scorecard going into the 5th round? Lol

 

[Koro_11]

Wow Ercegs corner must be dumbasses then and you must be coaching high level fighters. Cause they definitely didn't think dummy was that far ahead lol. The fuck

Was it 4-0 in your scorecard going into the 5th round? Lol

I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you didn't even bother reading my initial post.

If you took 30 seconds to read it, you would realize that I MYSELF SCORED IT FOR PANTOJA because I knew they would give it to him BASED ON THE CURRENT SCORING CRITERIA.

What I'm criticizing is THE CRITERIA, and I'm aware that Pantoja eeked out the judges decision, and I'm also aware that he got his ass kicked.

To me this seems like a problem, that a guy can get his ass kicked, inflict no damage of his own, and still win.

So yeah, he won the decision, but he lost the fight.

 

[jeff7b9]

Again, don't disagree with any of that, and didn't really care who won it, I like both fighters just the same so not at all mad about one guy beating the other, just watching it as a neutral fan and noticing a very flawed system.

And yeah I'm ok with SLOOOOOW change, but how fucken slow do they need? UFC has been around for over 3 decades ffs, I've seen zero changes every since they started this stupid boxing system.

Ok..

Well. What do you suggest?

Judge the fight as a whole?

(Like PrideFC)

Do you have a better system in mind?

What would solve the problem?

It was a fight with close rounds, where the guy who did more damage got out grappled and was numerically outscored in a few rounds.

How do you propose to fix that?

 

[Your Two Braincells]

Why is it that they all just kinda accept the lame and obviously flawed system that's in place, and why does there seem to be no urgency whatsoever to tweak it into something that makes more sense?

Last nights main event was so bizarre for me, it was probably the best example of just how flawed the criteria is, you sat there and watched a fight where it was obvious that one guy was getting the better of the other guy, yet at the same time because you understand the system you just knew that the guy who was getting his ass handed to him was actually winning on the score cards.

Post fight we all kinda unanimously agreed that Erceg is the better fighter, who did all the damage and looked like the winner throughout the fight, but blew it because he lost the grappling position in the final minute of the fight.

And we just kinda accept it, we've been watching it for so long that we're perfectly OK with lying to ourselves and pretending that the guy who managed to hold certain grappling positions for about 20% of the fight while doing virtually zero damage, won despite actually getting his ass kicked from start to finish.

It's just really stupid, it's always been really really stupid, but last night's example perfectly demonstrates just how stupid it is.

By the way, I had no dog in that fight and zero preference who wins, I like both guys just the same if I'm honest, but I couldn't say with a straight face that Pantoja won that fight, while I could easily admit that he probably did enough to get the decision based on the current UFC judging criteria.

That's a big problem IMO, when in this sport the guy who we all know clearly lost the "fight", can easily make a case that he won the "decision", that's a big problem.

To put it simply, its because the Judges decisions are wrong. Dunno how these guys can call themselves “The Ultimate Fighting Championship” whilst rewarding the fighters who literally do nothing of significance the whole fight over the guy who was clearly causing more damage and getting the better of the exchanges on the feet.

I see comparisons between the Pantoja vs Erceg and Jan Blachowicz vs Alex Periera fights and how much people were mentioning how Pereira getting the win was deserved due to the moments Pereira had on the feet outweighing the moments Jan had on the ground.

Jan Blachowicz had more submission attempts and 7:32 control time over Pereira in a three rounder vs Pantoja’s 0 submission attempts and 8:15 control time in a five rounder and Erceg caused more damage and more significant shots on the feet than Pereira did against Blachowicz and yet Pereira gets the win while Erceg does not?

No issue with Pereira getting that win btw i just wish things were consistent.

 

[ElLunico]

I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you didn't even bother reading my initial post.

If you took 30 seconds to read it, you would realize that I MYSELF SCORED IT FOR PANTOJA because I knew they would give it to him BASED ON THE CURRENT SCORING CRITERIA.

What I'm criticizing is THE CRITERIA, and I'm aware that Pantoja eeked out the judges decision, and I'm also aware that he got his ass kicked.

To me this seems like a problem, that a guy can get his ass kicked, inflict no damage of his own, and still win.

So yeah, he won the decision, but he lost the fight.

We're we watching different fights? Lol he was edging the stand up but he definitely wasn't dominating. The cut made it look worse for Pantoja but you act like he was Chito and Erceg was O'malley in there lol. The compubox numbers even say it was close.

Pantoja was never badly hurt. Without the cut his face wasn't beat up. Lol like I said there are fights you can make this argument. This one definitely isn't one of them.

 

[DagOban**]

I like BJ Penn's idea : no judges.

Only finishes count. No finishes, both fighters loose.

For championship fights, contender gets no automatic rematch. Previous champion fights the next contender to reconquer belt.

 

[loisestrad]

Imagine if we're actually watching different fights. And that's just part of reality. Multiple different fights in different universes?

We're all watching a different fight, we're all living different lives in a multitude of universes in which every single fight and every single action plays out differently?

That would explain the bad judging.

I, personaly, blame God for making shit so complicated, not least when it comes to MMA.