WHy does Luta Livre get no respect?

[Title Fight Productions]

Its really got nothing to do with what Palhares states he is; clearly, the influx of all these luta livre experts to BTT had some effect, ESPECIALLY when we see Palhares using SPECIFIC staples of luta livre; watch videos of luta livre guys drilling, watch Cacareco and others, and you will see some of the exact same entries. Most of all, we have a luta livre guy as the main no-gi grappling coach at BTT. So, when, after all this, you have a BTT guy who grapples essentially like a luta livre guy, I'd think its obvious where to point the finger. And I believe this was the whole point in bringing those guys aboard; so that BTT could make use of what they had to offer.

Of course, but the arguement isn't is he a BJJ or LL guy, i think we ALL agree LL has influenced his game. I was just stating that he was a BJJ guy first and foremost.:wink:

Sounds like now we are starting to argue about which percentage of LL is he. Thats an arguement that no one can win, imo.

 

[KJGould]

No, but it's good people are acknowledging LL. Would be nice if BJJ did made acknowledgments more regularly.

 

[Supereem]

Its really got nothing to do with what Palhares states he is; clearly, the influx of all these luta livre experts to BTT had some effect, ESPECIALLY when we see Palhares using SPECIFIC staples of luta livre; watch videos of luta livre guys drilling, watch Cacareco and others, and you will see some of the exact same entries. Most of all, we have a luta livre guy as the main no-gi grappling coach at BTT. So, when, after all this, you have a BTT guy who grapples essentially like a luta livre guy, I'd think its obvious where to point the finger. And I believe this was the whole point in bringing those guys aboard; so that BTT could make use of what they had to offer.

Alot of the Carlson Gracie lineage guys were pretty efficent at leg locks. They seemed to be Ricardo Liborio's most sought after attack in all of the fights I have seen him.


You also have to remember Toko pulls guard almost every fight, and not just to transition to leglocks, he pulled closed guard against Miller. I think it is fair to say he is a BJJ figher with a huge LL influence and thats what makes BTT so fucking special.

 

[Supereem]

More importantly why are so many so intent and eager to find a fresher, cooler way to do shit that is effectively handled by BJJ. And don't say shit about innovation because that is in no way what CACC/Luta Livre/Metaphysicaikdo threads are about. Fucking jiu jitsu works, do it and be quiet.

Didnt your king Ryan Hall get submitted by a no name catch guy recently? Shit, fuck BJJ lets all learn what this pimp is doing.

 

[Supereem]

Also from the UG:


When it comes to his leg- and footlock mastery, he is largely self taught. His first instructor showed him the basics. But he got good at them, because whenever he'd get too tired to pass guard, his opponent's feet were right there for the taking.

*I asked him if he had a luta livre background, and he gave me and intense look and said: "my friend. JIU JITSU!!!"

 

[jasoncyclops**]

That guy trains with Imanari.

He is the sparring partner in the Imanari's instructional video.

And i am quite sure that match is not recently, look at Ryan's rashguard.

 

[Supereem]

That guy trains with Imanari.

He is the sparring partner in the Imanari's instructional video.

And i am quite sure that match is not recently, look at Ryan's rashguard.

It was in 2010. Imanari first started training at a pro wrestling gym if I remember correctly . I am sure Kforcer can verify it with his God like knowledge of Japanese submission.

 

[Shemhazai]

Submission grappling is submission grappling. It makes no sense to talk about where techniques came from, as they've likely been developed/discovered in different styles, countries, clubs and eras independently. I'm sure someone figured out how to do a heel hook in Pankration in ancient Greece.

 

[Supereem]

Submission grappling is submission grappling. It makes no sense to talk about where techniques came from, as they've likely been developed/discovered in different styles, countries, clubs and eras independently. I'm sure someone figured out how to do a heel hook in Pankration in ancient Greece.

There is actually a guy here who I think is about to get his PHD in Classics and he is writing a thesis on Ancient Pankration and according to his studies he can find no evidence of leg locks being used. I honored in Classics and argued that we should assume that they knew about simple leg submissions such as the kneebar, but he would have none of it!

 

[Kforcer]

I think it is fair to say he is a BJJ figher with a huge LL influence and thats what makes BTT so fucking special.

I hear that. I agree, totally. I'm just saying, his luta livre influence can't be denied. But, really, that was why they brought over the luta livre guys in the first place.

And absolutely, Carlson guys were always good with leglocks; its how Palhares does them and the entries he uses.

As far as Sotaro Yamada--definitely not a no-name.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Its really got nothing to do with what Palhares states he is; clearly, the influx of all these luta livre experts to BTT had some effect, ESPECIALLY when we see Palhares using SPECIFIC staples of luta livre; watch videos of luta livre guys drilling, watch Cacareco and others, and you will see some of the exact same entries. Most of all, we have a luta livre guy as the main no-gi grappling coach at BTT. So, when, after all this, you have a BTT guy who grapples essentially like a luta livre guy, I'd think its obvious where to point the finger. And I believe this was the whole point in bringing those guys aboard; so that BTT could make use of what they had to offer.

whos the head grappling coach? I wouldve thought it was murillo himself...

 

[ChrmnMa0]

For me, lutre Livre is more like Japanese BJJ

 

[Kforcer]

There is actually a guy here who I think is about to get his PHD in Classics and he is writing a thesis on Ancient Pankration and according to his studies he can find no evidence of leg locks being used. I honored in Classics and argued that we should assume that they knew about simple leg submissions such as the kneebar, but he would have none of it!

Far as I know, there was a famous match where an opponent tapped a guy out with a leg-lock, even as the other person actually took his life with a choke.

 

[Kforcer]

whos the head grappling coach? I wouldve thought it was murillo himself...

The late Eraldo Paes was the head submission-wrestling coach; he was a luta livre guy and a wizard at leg-locks.

 

[Shemhazai]

There is actually a guy here who I think is about to get his PHD in Classics and he is writing a thesis on Ancient Pankration and according to his studies he can find no evidence of leg locks being used. I honored in Classics and argued that we should assume that they knew about simple leg submissions such as the kneebar, but he would have none of it!

Well, I'm sure the historical record is pretty incomplete, but even if the Greeks didn't use leg locks (maybe they employed a positional hierarchy that made them difficult), I'm sure other contemporary grappling arts around the world had them. If you give someone the idea of bending people's joints the wrong way, and have them develop it under liberal rules, it's only a matter of time before they've figured out a way to attack every limb.

 

[Supereem]

Far as I know, there was a famous match where an opponent tapped a guy out with a leg-lock, even as the other person actually took his life with a choke.

Yeah I brought that up but he argued it was not specific enough. I think its stupid to think 500 years of no rules grappling couldnt 'discover' leglocks.

 

[Supereem]

Well, I'm sure the historical record is pretty incomplete, but even if the Greeks didn't use leg locks (maybe they employed a positional hierarchy that made them difficult), I'm sure other contemporary grappling arts around the world had them. If you give someone the idea of bending people's joints the wrong way, and have them develop it under liberal rules, it's only a matter of time before they've figured out a way to attack every limb.

Agreed

 

[Supereem]

I hear that. I agree, totally. I'm just saying, his luta livre influence can't be denied. But, really, that was why they brought over the luta livre guys in the first place.

And absolutely, Carlson guys were always good with leglocks; its how Palhares does them and the entries he uses.

As far as Sotaro Yamada--definitely not a no-name.

I think there are three people who know who Yamada is in the Western world and two of those people are you .

I agree that his crazy entries are from LL, the only other place I have seen people attempt that has been in Japan. I cannot think of any examples of other BJJ guys attempting them.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

The late Eraldo Paes was the head submission-wrestling coach; he was a luta livre guy and a wizard at leg-locks.

I thought he was one of the coaches, not the head coach, anywyas, he was a bjj black belt too (im just dicking around here lol)

 

[Kforcer]

I think there are three people who know who Yamada is in the Western world and two of those people are you .

I agree that his crazy entries are from LL, the only other place I have seen people attempt that has been in Japan. I cannot think of any examples of other BJJ guys attempting them.

Actually, people were going ape at LockFlow over Yamada's win over Strasser Kiichi. He's been the Pancrase Pro/Am Catch Wrestling champ, etc. He's a respected, accomplished guy.

Oh, and Ryan Hall is a beast for seeking out venues of competition and going after guys of different stylistic approaches.