WHy does Luta Livre get no respect?

BJJ_Rage said:
great wrestling? ricardo arona just to name one...

leg locks? thats just a thing of him, but like I said before, he was asked about this, and he said where his leglocks skills came from.
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Yeah, im not trying to equate it to Paul Harris is the way he is because of the LL influence. I already said much earlier in the thread that is is first and always a bJJ fighter.
 
Btt would have been the first jj camp to have a wrestling coach. Btt had a few ll fitghers in their team. Not sure if Alexandre Franca nogueira ended up joining them later on in his career. Btt like any big team attracts fighters from other teams. At on time and even still now, btt is looked at the team to contact if your pupil has potential to become a mma star but you just do not have the connections. When did toko ever claim to train ll?
 
BJJ_Rage said:
great wrestling? ricardo arona just to name one...

leg locks? thats just a thing of him, but like I said before, he was asked about this, and he said where his leglocks skills came from.
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His wrestling is better and different to arona's, his stance and positioning is better as well as his technique, arona would often dominate with driving his opponents.
 
GBDaz said:
His wrestling is better and different to arona's, his stance and positioning is better as well as his technique, arona would often dominate with driving his opponents.
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still both have good wrestling, just because their styles of wrestling are differnt doesnt mean anything...
 
The masks, I think.

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Mike Wilson Jr. said:
Murilo, Arona, Filho, Milton Viera, Fabiano Sherner, Marcello Salazar, just off the top of my head...


Murilo and Bebe were the ones to teach Toko his leg locks. Ive trained under Murilo many times, and have a thing for asking a shit ton of questions.
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At the time Toquinho was coming up, Cacareco was a part of BTT, and obviously their games bear striking similarities. In fact, Toquinho has used some of the very same leg-lock entries as Cacareco.

Also, I'm thinking that the late Eraldo Paes, BTT's submission wrestling coach and a man infamous for his leg-locks, also no doubt had an influence. Well, one would assume he had an influence on lots of folks. Just as Milton Vieira--another luta livre guy that came to BTT--influenced many guys on the team with his anaconda choke.

Anyway, one would presume that with Eraldo Paes coaching the sub-wrestling at BTT and being a leg-lock whiz, and Toquinho training at BTT and turning into a leglock whiz over there, that at least some connection existed. And of course, there's Cacareco, Vieira and the large contingent of luta livre guys that joined BTT. Pequeno has trained there, lots of luta livre guys have trained there. Minowa has trained there too.
 
Title Fight Productions said:
In regards to this thread, Pual Harris's background is more of a BJJ fighter than a Luta Livre fighter even though he is a leg locking machine!
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I don't know; seems pretty clear that he was influenced by the influx of luta livre guys over to BTT, especially given that, like I said before, a lot of his entries into leglocks are specifically ones that Cacareco has utilized in the past and which have been part of the luta livre curriculum, such as the rolling leg-lock from the back.
 
Kforcer said:
I don't know; seems pretty clear that he was influenced by the influx of luta livre guys over to BTT, especially given that, like I said before, a lot of his entries into leglocks are specifically ones that Cacareco has utilized in the past and which have been part of the luta livre curriculum, such as the rolling leg-lock from the back.
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Im not saying he wasn't heavily influenced by the LL guys, but the fact is he is a BJJ player first. I mean you can't be arguing he is a LL guy when he himself has stated over and over that he is a bjj guy first, right?

I mean that was my only point, to stave off the BJJ mob from ruining this thread.
 
Title Fight Productions said:
Im not saying he wasn't heavily influenced by the LL guys, but the fact is he is a BJJ player first. I mean you can't be arguing he is a LL guy when he himself has stated over and over that he is a bjj guy first, right?

I mean that was my only point, to stave off the BJJ mob from ruining this thread.
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Yup. Palahares has said that his leglock skill originally came from positional sparring/rolling where he would get stuck in some BTT guys guards. He couldn
 
GBDaz said:
When guys games are completely different it most definately does.
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well, I would use a bjj point of view on this, because I sadly do not wrestle...

just because I am a "guardiero", doesnt mean all my team mates will have the same type of game... I hardly ever go for leg locks, but there are a couple of leg lock machines in my gym..see where I am going?
 
I don't disrespect it or really respect it because I know SFA about it. I assume many are in this position.
 
Title Fight Productions said:
Im not saying he wasn't heavily influenced by the LL guys, but the fact is he is a BJJ player first. I mean you can't be arguing he is a LL guy when he himself has stated over and over that he is a bjj guy first, right?

I mean that was my only point, to stave off the BJJ mob from ruining this thread.
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Its really got nothing to do with what Palhares states he is; clearly, the influx of all these luta livre experts to BTT had some effect, ESPECIALLY when we see Palhares using SPECIFIC staples of luta livre; watch videos of luta livre guys drilling, watch Cacareco and others, and you will see some of the exact same entries. Most of all, we have a luta livre guy as the main no-gi grappling coach at BTT. So, when, after all this, you have a BTT guy who grapples essentially like a luta livre guy, I'd think its obvious where to point the finger. And I believe this was the whole point in bringing those guys aboard; so that BTT could make use of what they had to offer.
 
BJJ_Rage said:
well, I would use a bjj point of view on this, because I sadly do not wrestle...

just because I am a "guardiero", doesnt mean all my team mates will have the same type of game... I hardly ever go for leg locks, but there are a couple of leg lock machines in my gym..see where I am going?
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Good point. Every gym will have guys with radically different styles, even if their teachers are the same.
 
Kenny from MD said:
More importantly why are so many so intent and eager to find a fresher, cooler way to do shit that is effectively handled by BJJ. And don't say shit about innovation because that is in no way what CACC/Luta Livre/Metaphysicaikdo threads are about. Fucking jiu jitsu works, do it and be quiet.
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Jiu Jitsu works becasue the theory of jiu jitsu is that it's a living, evolving thing. Basically a new technique comes into the system from a separate grappling art and it becomes brazilian jiu jitsu.

If Rolls just said "Jiu Jitsu works, do it and be quiet" and didn't try to adapt techniques from other grappling styles, your "jiu jitsu" might not "work" quite as well as it does now.

Curiosity pushes innovation, innovation improves the sport. Why would you try to squash another grapplers curiosity?
 
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