WHy does Luta Livre get no respect?

i hate the defined line between submission grappling styles. i say if the shit works, train it, then use it. who cares if it came out of the wrestling, cacc, sambo or bjj book.
 
footgod said:
Here is a news article talking about the heelhook being a gracie technique
when for years it was considered a commoners technique or a peasant tech
I don't read Portugese but that is how it was expalined to me

430515_227780977309351_100002323516132_503263_882971299_n.jpg
Click to expand...

I'll try my best to translate:
"Gracie defeated!
Showing clear superiority Tat
 
footgod said:
actually this thread stems from both talking to my coach and training with a very competent young man from Hugo Duarte's gym. Look I'm not looking to train anything new. Neither is my coach who is a Black Belt Worlds Champion and Abu dubai vice chair (second place two times). We just don't like seeing revisionist history.
Also who here knew Palahares was lutch livre? Yet he is the top leglocker outside of Japan right now.



Here is a news article talking about the heelhook being a gracie technique
when for years it was considered a commoners technique or a peasant tech
I don't read Portugese but that is how it was expalined to me

430515_227780977309351_100002323516132_503263_882971299_n.jpg
Click to expand...

My Master, Soca who is a 4th degree black belt under Carlos Gracie Jr. and I were talking about Luta Libre vs Bjj and he told me they had many challenges from them and he has nothing but respect for them. He didn't just hear about it. He lived it, along with Renzo, Ryan, Roleta, Soneca, Feitosa, Nino, Draculino.
 
it is surprising I didn't know that much before this guy came to town for example this is a LL fighter

 
Mostly because of the ll vs gjj challenge match event in the 90s where gjj swept ll. that was the nail in the coffin.
 
hugo duarte? lol, aint that the one that got bitch slap by rickson on the beach? no shit you got the wrong story...

Toquinho was a bjj black belt way before he got his black belt in LL...

LL is awesome, not as much developed as bjj in brazil, but still fucking awesome...there are several LL guys fighting now in the UFC... as a matter of fact, Paul sass is more of a LL guy than a bjj guy, well, in theory, marcelo brigadeiro is team kaboon grappling coach, and he is a LL dude... although, Paul has a very unique aproach to MMA fighting, hes the most agressive guard pulling in the game...

oh and by the way TS, you got the fadda history vs GJJ, not GJJ vs LL...
 
BJJ_Rage said:
LL is awesome, not as much developed as bjj in brazil, but still fucking awesome...there are several LL guys fighting now in the UFC... as a matter of fact, Paul sass is more of a LL guy than a bjj guy, well, in theory, marcelo brigadeiro is team kaboon grappling coach, and he is a LL dude... although, Paul has a very unique aproach to MMA fighting, hes the most agressive guard pulling in the game...
Click to expand...

Sass was subbing guys with his patented triangle when he was training BJJ at Next Gen UK. He only made the move to Kaobon more recently. And whaddya know, he starts heel hooking people. One of the few successful bottom players in MMA. Very dangerous guard. I consider him more of a BJJ guy (based on his positions and tactics) with a LL influence (based on his leglock game and his current MMA team).
 
SuperSuperRambo said:
Sass was subbing guys with his patented triangle when he was training BJJ at Next Gen UK. He only made the move to Kaobon more recently. And whaddya know, he starts heel hooking people. One of the few successful bottom players in MMA. Very dangerous guard. I consider him more of a BJJ guy (based on his positions and tactics) with a LL influence (based on his leglock game and his current MMA team).
Click to expand...

his agressive guard pulling is too agressive for any style lol, if anything he does SJJ (sass jiu jitsu)...

I found intresting that he does a ryan hall version the triangle, hoooking the arm not the leg, most of his triangles came that way.... Nico welko, the LL instructor we had for the past month, showed us this version of the triangle, and for me, it was like dejavu, it was ryan hall talking... the way he was explaining how LL triangle style uses other muscles than the bjj triangle style (the big muscles against weak muscles), it was also pretty weird that he did not know who ryan was... Also, his triangle was infuckingsane...
 
BJJ_Rage said:
his agressive guard pulling is too agressive for any style lol, if anything he does SJJ (sass jiu jitsu)...

I found intresting that he does a ryan hall version the triangle, hoooking the arm not the leg, most of his triangles came that way.... Nico welko, the LL instructor we had for the past month, showed us this version of the triangle, and for me, it was like dejavu, it was ryan hall talking... the way he was explaining how LL triangle style uses other muscles than the bjj triangle style (the big muscles against weak muscles), it was also pretty weird that he did not know who ryan was... Also, his triangle was infuckingsane...
Click to expand...

Well, who knows, maybe Ryan Hall was LL influenced as well somehow? ^^
 
1) No one disses anyone. If you have a good LL guy, train with him. If you have a good BJJ guy around, train with him. If you have both, choose what you prefer.

2) LL does not have a problem of being disrespected, but of not being very popular, as in not practiced in many places. The only place where LL is well organized is in Germany.

3) You got your history wrong, very wrong. It actually developed by people from a rowing club training together. The pioneers included Fausto, Brunocilla and Tatu.

Here is a short vid, showing some of the biggest names in LL:

 
Palhares is NOT a LL fighter, ask him directly and he will tell you he is 100% BJJ, true fact.
 
Outside of Brazil, the only formal school I've heard of that does LL are the Andyconda schools, whose stuff is on Youtube.

People like going against the estalbishment. It's not just grappling. You see it in striking too. "Ooh, we train Sanda/Draka/Pankration/52 Blocks/Sambo/Catch Wrestling and that makes us better because we're different!" There's nothing wrong with training any of these arts if competent instruction is available, hell you're lucky. But I'm assuming your gym doesn't have the equivalents of Billy Robinson, Igor Yakimov, Paul Harris, or Liu Hailong on staff. If you do though, that's awesome.

Too often, people advertise themselves as an instructor in an estoertic art to hide their own lack of credibility to teach. The Sanda coach with a 0-1 record, or the "catch wrestler" self taught in videos who loses at the NAGA novice division. That's where the disrespect might come from, a matter of mistrust.

LL is rare in the states, so people claiming they know it raise eyebrows.
 
no shit I loved the LL seminar, the instructor was nico welko, direct student from andyconda... all I can say, if you have the chance to train with nico, do it... the dude is beyond awesome, I would guess andy is even more awesome...
 
BJJ_Rage said:
no shit I loved the LL seminar, the instructor was nico welko, direct student from andyconda... all I can say, if you have the chance to train with nico, do it... the dude is beyond awesome, I would guess andy is even more awesome...
Click to expand...

Andy is a machine and he doesn't have his nickname for nothing....

:eek:

 
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