Why does everyone give Ortega's PED history a pass?

[cevo]

The age thing is meaningless. 23 is an adult. Taking PED's is akin to trying to steal someone else's money.

Ortega is built like a twig, doesn't rely on power at all and competes with USADA testing now so I don't think he has any unfair advantage anymore.

Cheating in combat sports is particularily bad, but it happened so now what? Are we going to discredit him for the rest of his life? This was almost 5 years ago.

 

[bigwaverider]

Because Nobody cares. We just use it to bash guys we don’t like. I love BJ, And will forgive him for masking his drug use. It was just a mistake. But that piece of shit roider Brock would never beat Hunt if he wasn’t a cheating bastard.

Wait what.. Masking his drug use? AFAIK he went to a doctor and at least part of that reason was for vertigo. The doctor administered some drugs to him via IV. Penn disclosed to USADA that he had an IV by a doctor to administer this drug. They banned him for 6 months just for the IV. The drug they administered was USADA legal. Beyond that I never heard of him using that IV to hide "his drug use". Maybe it's been discussed before, but I never heard of it.

 

[thobra]

Wait what.. Masking his drug use? AFAIK he went to a doctor and at least part of that reason was for vertigo. The doctor administered some drugs to him via IV. Penn disclosed to USADA that he had an IV by a doctor to administer this drug. They banned him for 6 months just for the IV. The drug they administered was USADA legal. Beyond that I never heard of him using that IV to hide "his drug use". Maybe it's been discussed before, but I never heard of it.

Hmm. I love BJ, but the reason for WADA to ban the use of IV is that it is used to flush the system for drugs, and to dillute bio-passports. I am pretty sure BJ or the other guys from Jacksons he went there with would know this. Everyone else knows it is prohibited. If you are a pro athlete,hanging with other pro athletes, how can you not know?

I know a lot of guys use psoriasis cream, foot lotion and dick pills that may affect test results too. If they are tested at the right time, someone might even disclose it to USADA.

 

[Deleted member 385619]

Jon was not proven innocent you fucking retard. If you had any brain cells to do your own critical thinking, you'd realize this.

1st PED failure:
The "dick pills" that Jon used an excuse contained Tamoxifen. This is a banned substance and Jon Jones had ZERO Tamoxifen in his system when he was tested. This means it is 100% scientifically impossible that those "dick pills" could have contributed to Jon's positive test failure. In addition, the receipt for the pills literally had orders for purified versions of the drugs Jon popped for -- and he provided a false receipt to USADA the 1st time.

2nd PED failure:
Jon was "cleared by science" by a guy that calls himself "Dr." Scott. Well, Dr. Scott is only a lawyer, having a PhD LAW degree. This guy is not a scientist and cannot make scientifically valid conclusions in any way, shape, or form. Plus Jon paid the guy to write him the equivalent of a doctor's note.

The reality is that Jon tested +ve for Turinabol metabolites which would have come from weeks or MONTHS before. It's entirely possible that Jon Jones popped 50+ oral Turinabol pills during training camp and received substantial performance enhancements. Therefore one absolutely cannot conclude that he received "no benefit" from a tiny amount of leftover metabolites.

False! Lose the leaf, you aren't fit to rep it. Innocent of enhancing performance, anything else is irrelevant to fighting. Unless he personally hurt you may wanna ease up tough guy

 

[Blayt7hh]

He's not that popular yet. If he ever gets really big on here, a bunch of posters will bring it up in every thread about him

 

[Deleted member 506663]

Because most posters here know shit about PED's beyond herp/derp and stereotypes.

 

[Blayt7hh]

False! Lose the leaf, you aren't fit to rep it. Innocent of enhancing performance, anything else is irrelevant to fighting. Unless he personally hurt you may wanna ease up tough guy

I mean he is completely right and you're not. Jones wasn't proven innocent and if you honestly believe him then I have a bridge to sell you

 

[Fergelmince]

because he's not black

neither is this guy

 

[cevo]

Brian hasn't been honest about his PED use either.. both have lied about it. Brian imo, seems to be just a plastic as Jones.. put on the act for the cameras, but far from that persona when the cameras are not around. Both do community service, actually most convicted criminals do community service.

Nobody talks about Cerrone's failure either..

How did he lie about it?

Ortega does community work voluntarily......

 

[agibmxmma]

Because he was 23 at the time and seems to be honest about the drugs being a mistake, and puts a lot of time and effort into community work and helping people in need which makes up for it a little bit.

Jon is a sociopath and a lying piece of shit who hits people in traffic, runs away, lies about it, gets caught using drugs multiple times, claims it was "contamination" each time etc.The most disingenuous person you could possibly imagine.

Big difference. Usually when athletes are honest and say "Look, I took the drugs and it was a stupid mistake. I wish I didn't do it." people are willing to forgive and move on.

Brian hasn't been honest about his PED use either.. both have lied about it. Brian imo, seems to be just a plastic as Jones.. put on the act for the cameras, but far from that persona when the cameras are not around. Both do community service, actually many convicted criminals do community service.

Nobody talks about Cerrone's failure either..

 

[agibmxmma]

How did he lie about it?

Ortega does community work voluntarily......

You must not know the story then. If that is the case, why speak on something you don't know the actual history of? Ortega has maintained a huge lie about the PED use, since it happened. Jones has done community service voluntarily too.. mute point there.

 

[Deleted member 347815]

Every mma fighter has cheated at least once in their career dont be naive.

Dat blanket statement.

 

[Deleted member 385619]

I mean he is completely right and you're not. Jones wasn't proven innocent and if you honestly believe him then I have a bridge to sell you

Guilty of having a banned substance, not of enhancing performance. It isn't about what I believe, we are afforded the rulings

 

[Blayt7hh]

Guilty of having a banned substance, not of enhancing performance. It isn't about what I believe, we are afforded the rulings

It is what you believe. No one takes Clomid really as a dick pill, it's a classic post cycle horomone. As far as rulings go, did you miss the whole Turinabol/Jones got off for snitching scandal? No you didn't, you just choose to pretend he was clean

 

[cevo]

You must not know the story then. If that is the case, why speak on something you don't know the actual history of? Ortega has maintained a huge lie about the PED use, since it happened. Jones has done community service voluntarily too.. mute point there.

“I’ll let people hate on me for whatever reason,” Ortega told MMAjunkie. “For me it was something, I admitted – or, I publicly talked about it and said, ‘Yes, I did take something.’ I’ve never took nothing else like injectables or anything like that. It was an oral thing to make you cut weight. It’s almost Hydroxycut in a way. Or like fen-phen – remember that? I took that in order to help my weight cut, which every fighter hates weight-cutting. But I never excused no matter what it is that I took. I took full responsibility for what is it, what I did, and I did my punishment. I paid my time, and I continue with my life as anyone else does.”

This is what he said. As far as I know, drostanolone is often used to cut weight so what do you mean that he's lying about?

Even if he is lying, people percieve him as genuine so they are willing to forget. Also he wasn't in the spot light at the time which also helps. If he was a dominant champion that got caught, it would have been very different.

 

[Alpha_T83]

False! Lose the leaf, you aren't fit to rep it. Innocent of enhancing performance, anything else is irrelevant to fighting. Unless he personally hurt you may wanna ease up tough guy

How is it false? Which part of my post is false? I would love to hear you try and dissect my arguments.

You can't just come and say "false" without providing any evidence or counter-arguments.

 

[Alpha_T83]

Guilty of having a banned substance, not of enhancing performance. It isn't about what I believe, we are afforded the rulings

Irrelevant dumbass.

That was all said by lawyers and arbitrators, who are literally paid to go easy on Jones. Not a single actual scientist ever cleared Jones.

 

[Alpha_T83]

Guilty of having a banned substance, not of enhancing performance. It isn't about what I believe, we are afforded the rulings

Those rulings literally don't matter, because they were clearly made to go easy on Jon Jones.

And they are not scientifically valid conclusions. If those rulings were made by an independent governing body, with public accountability, and without any financial ties to the UFC, then I could probably accept them a little more.

But the following issues make those "rulings" completely invalid and irrelevant:
1) Not made by an independent governing body (no public accountability)
2) USADA have financial ties to the UFC -- not unbiased
3) There is literally zero scientific evidence to support Jon Jones' "clearance"

The fact remains that Jon Jones could have taken multiple doses of oral Turinabol, and then still popped for the same tiny amount of metabolites. Without finding a way to explain away that caveat, you absolutely cannot conclude that Jon Jones received "zero performance enhancing effects".

 

[Deleted member 385619]

How is it false? Which part of my post is false? I would love to hear you try and dissect my arguments.

You can't just come and say "false" without providing any evidence or counter-arguments.

I can, I did and will continue to do so. Just because some fat kid with too much time on his hands googled some bullshit doesn't make it so. People with far more credentials than you made the decision. Their findings trump yours. Lose the leaf

 

[Deleted member 385619]

It is what you believe. No one takes Clomid really as a dick pill, it's a classic post cycle horomone. As far as rulings go, did you miss the whole Turinabol/Jones got off for snitching scandal? No you didn't, you just choose to pretend he was clean

That's how his suspension was reduced, if they believed he took an amount to enhance performance he may not have had that option. Sherdog opinion is not above USADA