Why do you think 20 years ago was a better product of MMA then it is now?

[BowserJr]

Probably not. We couldn't even watch prelims live back then. The sweet spot was probably 2009-2011. But mma gossip isn't new and exciting to me now. So that's probably just nostalgia

IMO sweet spot was 2003-2014

2003 saw Pride entertaining it's peak which lasted until it folded
2007-2010 UFC match Prides peak since they absorbed many of their fighters and we got many long anticipated matchups. Plus Strikeforce really picked up steam
2010-2014 Strikeforce got acquired by UFC and we saw more long anticipated matchups.

 

[BowserJr]

First, it was because of competition!
UFC had to put on good cards, to counteract the strikeforces, pride and affliction of the worlds.


Second, was structure!

Joe Silva knew everyone on that roster, and he knew what matchups would be the most exciting, but also know how to use the TV time, to build each fighter. They were brought up the right way, or matched the right way. Also knew how to build certain guys. 3 or 400 is a lot different than over 700.


Also, they killed the regional scene. Now fight nights, are a bunch of regional guys, who are still practically noobs to the game. That’s what them shows in bumfuck Kentucky is for.

Joe Silva is the UFC GOAT

 

[r-harper-1]

Fighters are more talented for sure …..I feel like in the heavier divisions the steroids helped them a lot

 

[BowserJr]

more exciting fighters, that were not afraid to go for it.

Fighters today are too worried to lose, and are boring point fighters, or even worse grapplers, that just want to lay n prey.

This is the #1 reason IMO.

Even with all the other BS that has created a lesser product if the fighters at least went for it instead of competing to not lose, the fights would be exciting. That culture is so pervasive and probably due to UFCs control. I also blame American culture of only winning matters no matter how the performance is. Japanese culture holds budo in higher regard and that creates a different fighting ethos where excitement and actual fighting matters more.

Ironically I feel like lay n pray was more prevalent before. The thing is that now everyone is so scared to do anything so most fighters are to afraid to commit to anything, even takedowns.

I get the sense that UFC brass wants to promote stand up but in the end they just stifle good grappling. Not many guys are good off their back anymore because being dangerous off the back is only rewarded if a sub is successful. You can be on your back doing all the offense while the top guy holds on for dear life and top guy wins just cuz he's on top

The end result is sloppy striking matches cuz there are almost no specialists, grapplers don't grapple and if they do it's just wall n stall and riding top control since that means no risk of sub or being swept. It's high risk and low reward to go for subs or vicious ground and pound. The st

 

[Dbreiden83080]

The great fighters that came over from pride. And the UFC that built their product from the ground up with the big-time stars that rose up in the company. So when the pride guys came over, you had some really exciting matchups with top-tier UFC guys. They’ve never matched the heyday, which was GSP in his prime, Anderson Silva in his prime, LHW with stars, like Rampage, Chuck Liddell, Rashad Evans, Shogun, Jones, obviously coming along. They just don’t have the exciting matchups anymore.

 

[Dbreiden83080]

The ESPN deal turned the UFC into dogshit.

The UFC went from a growth-oriented fight promotion that chased profits to a lazy content provider focused on slashing costs to squeeze extra pennies.

Matchmaking was once run by Joe Silva and for bigger fights in coordination with Lorenzo Fertitta. These are two awful people, but also two very competent people.

Now we have a more compicated setup that involves less talented people in Mick Maynard, Sean Shelby, Hunter Campbell and a disinterested, lazy Dana White who cares more about boxing, slap fighting and social climbing than the UFC.

It's not nostalgia glasses. It's just understanding that the current UFC's organization and product sucks shit because the business model fundamentally changed.

I agree somewhat but the product was getting watered down well before the ESPN deal took place. Dana had been charging an exorbitant amount of money for piss poor cards for quite some time. The heyday was literally in the late 2000s in terms of stacking events. It hasn’t been the same since.

 

[Dbreiden83080]

Maybe cause we were in our 20s and “cage fighting” was newer and more exciting?

This is a part of it. Hell I was in my early 20s when I was just getting back into the sport. By the time I was in my late 20s I was full on obsessed with it. Now I’m in my 40s. Everything seems kind of shittier. Oh well.

 

[GordoBarraBJJ]

More fighters fought to win, and put themselves in harms way, rather than to not lose.

 

[nostradumbass]

Because sports in general are more fun to watch when you're younger than the people competing.

 

[sickness666]

I agree with many of the points here.
For me, there was simply more excitement back then when I'd seen every guy on the card several times and knew pretty much exactly what to expect. And my expectations were exceeded far more often. This "best fights next best" thing happened much more often because, of course, it was also much more manageable in terms of the number of fighters.
The main reason I lost interest was the sale of the UFC to WME.
That Dana White, who's never even been in a cage himself, wants to tell me how MMA should work after 35 years of being a combat sports fan is ridiculous. And that asshole probably spends more money in a casino in one night than 95% of his fighters earn in an entire year. Would I really give it my all for a guy like that and risk a knockout or a submission? Most likely not, and I don't blame anyone who fights safety first because of that.
The final straw for me was the "promotion" of Conor McGregor as MMA's biggest star. A guy who has never defended a single title in his fighting career.
Too many things I can't identify with.

 

[TR1]

1.) I was younger
2.) Talent pool in the heaviest divisions was much better and seemed to actually attract good, well rounded fighters that were not fossils.
3.) Less events, so I was hyped to watch the big ones
4.) Less generic MMA content slop and no social media, so the fighters had an aura of mystique that's impossible to get today.
5.) Less casual filth following the sport. On the other hand utter meatheads might have proportionally been more of the fanbase, so I'm not sure if thats a positive or negative. All I know is the number of TapouT shirts I saw at late 2000s MMA events blinded me.

 

[TheBulletwithWings]

I can see your point, but I still prefer the days of different orgs with different fighters. I think when it's only one show in town, the pay suffers with less options so more fighters will play the points game instead of taking chances trying to finish the fight

I think the win bonus is the biggest problem. Should be flat pay win or lose.

 

[Feaser]

Almost everything was better 20 years ago. MMA is no different. Things started to go to shit in 2008, though the seeds had been planted long before then.

 

[Chayanne]

Less knowledge, which meant that fighters had fewer skills and therefore you often had spectacular street fights in the ring, now everyone is skilled enough and the level is high so you need to have intelligence to understand what they are doing.

 

[krelianx]

Duh.

PRIDE was immeasurably better than this monotonous, soulless dustbin of inflated cards, monotone presentation, boring champions, overly large rosters, fight avoiding divas, and redundant ugly aesthetics.

Anyone who was following the sport at that time had goosebumps every time a card came around.

Wanderlei Silva, Fedor Emelianenko, Takanori Gomi were champions. There were insanely amazing tournaments every year. Each fighter had a well defined personality and you knew who was fighting who. Amazing rivalries developed. The sport had soul.

This was a card, one card.

 

[HicksonGrayC]

There was just more hespect in those days

 

[TheBulletwithWings]

Duh.

PRIDE was immeasurably better than this monotonous, soulless dustbin of inflated cards, monotone presentation, boring champions, overly large rosters, fight avoiding divas, and redundant ugly aesthetics.

Anyone who was following the sport at that time had goosebumps every time a card came around.

Wanderlei Silva, Fedor Emelianenko, Takanori Gomi were champions. There were insanely amazing tournaments every year. Each fighter had a well defined personality and you knew who was fighting who. Amazing rivalries developed. The sport had soul.

This was a card, one card.

View attachment 1087760

Yeah Pride was great, So was and is UFC.

 

[savemgs]

Mega ultra stars Drew Fickett, Ivan Salavery, Fabiano Scherner...

You're just feeling nostalgic.

I gotta disagree with you, my friend. I’m not saying these guys were megastars or anything, but at least they had something—personality, hype, a reason to get excited about watching them fight.


Take Scherner, for example. A lot of people were pumped to see him step into the big leagues—this high-level Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu heavyweight with legit credentials. Salaverry? He was Canada’s great hope for a while. And Fickett? That guy had serious hype at one point. He was running through dudes, tapping them out left and right like it was nothing.


Yeah, sure, none of them ended up being long-term contenders, but you can’t deny that there was actual excitement around them at some point—something that’s missing from 99% of today’s UFC roster.

 

[krelianx]

Yeah Pride was great, So was and is UFC.

The UFC was great, but they have progressively diluted their product, inflating cards, oversaturating the roster, and ultimately piling up champions without real narrative threads or star value. Nobody gives a flying fuck about Pantoja, Merab, Ankalaev, Belal, Julianna. HW is hostage for a while with Jones Aspinall being literally the only interesting fight in the division.

 

[TheBulletwithWings]

The UFC was great, but they have progressively diluted their product, inflating cards, oversaturating the roster, and ultimately piling up champions without real narrative threads or star value. Nobody gives a flying fuck about Pantoja, Merab, Ankalaev, Belal, Julianna. HW is hostage for a while with Jones Aspinall being literally the only interesting fight in

I just enjoy the fights. Sometimes watching the unknowns in the prelims wind up way more entertaining than the main cards. All my original stars are long gone so I learned not to dwell on the old days, just enjoy what we got. If you always compare you wont enjoy as much.