Why do people insist Nick Diaz is elite?

[Crash Lance]

He's elite all he does is fight top fighters and gives them fits. All of them.

Who is the female in your avatar? I tried to look for her on the internet but all I found is other females.

 

[ShreddinMMA]

Wrong, he didn't beat them all but he certainly didn't lose to all of them.

No.

He lost to them all.

The shit Diaz fans say is just so pathetic. The fact you even need to say that shows how few quality wins Diaz actually has.

 

[robjenkins2]

No.

He lost to them all.

The shit Diaz fans say is just so pathetic. The fact you even need to say that shows how few quality wins Diaz actually has.

He has quite a few top ten wins in his career, he beat Gomi who was the number one at that weight in the world. Someone did a thread on this a few years back.

 

[ShreddinMMA]

He has quite a few top ten wins in his career, he beat Gomi who was the number one at that weight in the world. Someone did a thread on this a few years back.

Lol what? Quite a few top 10 wins?

Do you really need to lie for Diaz? He has Gomi, who else? Maybe Paul Daley, BJ Penn, and Robbie Lawler, depending on what those guys were ranked at the time of the fight.

At most, that's 4. In a 35 fight career.

People always talk about padded records. Diaz is the definition of a padded record.

 

[deviake]

HIlarious. A guy who has no idea how to cut off the cage in any way and complains when people don't stand in front of him and bang has a fight IQ "off the charts"? I guess you think mean mugging, flipping people off and trying to walk everyone down is the definition of brilliant fighting. Hell, even the Daley win was a bit of a joke, had the ref not been forgiving of him being on his knees doing nothing, he would have lost that fight. Nick has his strengths but he's proven time and again he isn't as great as his fans pretend he is.

Yes, if the ref was totally incompetent and didn't do his job at all, Nick would have "lost" that fight. Good point.

 

[Davemeddlehed]

What a retarded thread.

Almost as bad as one of yours. Now you see what we see.

 

[JayElectra]

I can't dispute your score but I remember thinking BJ had the fight won with Fitch going into the third round, in which Fitch got a 10-8 round even though he really wasn't close to finishing it. It's hard to say where BJ was ranked wise but he was certainly still in his prime when Nick beat him, he dropped two decisions to Frankie previously, the first fight I thought he won and a few others as well. Nick's career has really been a mess for the last few years, there is no denying that but like you said, his brand is bigger than ever. I miss the days when he was fighting 3 times a year and locked into the fight game, he was at his best then. The Anderson fight was impressive to me, I thought he lost but won the first and fourth rounds, as an average size WW that is impressive to me against a guy most consider the best fighter ever who was also on PED's. Everyone thought Nick was gonna get starched in the first round in that fight and he went the distance dishing out good shots and never once being in any sort of trouble.

I've never even watched the whole Diaz/Anderson fight. I thought it was something of a sideshow going into it, and I ended up pretty much losing interest after a round or two. From what I saw, Diaz did far better than he supposed to mostly because he fought Anderson relatively conservatively and smartly refused to give him much to counter. Was it that competitive? I didn't think the parts that I saw were, but, again, I haven't seen the whole fight and the parts I did see I wasn't watching all that closely. Full credit to Diaz for getting paid handsomely for what turned out to be fairly light work for both men.

 

[robjenkins2]

Lol what? Quite a few top 10 wins?

Do you really need to lie for Diaz? He has Gomi, who else? Maybe Paul Daley, BJ Penn, and Robbie Lawler, depending on what those guys were ranked at the time of the fight.

At most, that's 4. In a 35 fight career.

People always talk about padded records. Diaz is the definition of a padded record.

You realize that most guys go whole careers without one top ten win right? Matt Brown is ranked 5th in the world and has zero, we gonna pick him apart too?

 

[Area809]

I love how folks cite his win over Robbie as an elite victory. But up until the last couple of years, Robbie's career seemed like it was heading south towards the average journeyman's route. He lost he's last fight in Strikeforce to Larkin and probably had the least amount of expectations of all the fighters coming over to the UFC on that deal. So let's put that victory into context. It means something now, because of Robbie's resurgence, but it didn't mean as much 3 years ago.

Nick is giving these elite fighters fits, but he's not beating most of them because he's not on their level. GSP is elite because he's essentially undefeated against elite competition. I'm not saying you have to be undefeated, but you have to win at least most of those fights. Other an Gomi, his resume is pretty blah.

 

[robjenkins2]

I've never even watched the whole Diaz/Anderson fight. I thought it was something of a sideshow going into it, and I ended up pretty much losing interest after a round or two. From what I saw, Diaz did far better than he supposed to mostly because he fought Anderson relatively conservatively and smartly refused to give him much to counter. Was it that competitive? I didn't think the parts that I saw were, but, again, I haven't seen the whole fight and the parts I did see I wasn't watching all that closely. Full credit to Diaz for getting paid handsomely for what turned out to be fairly light work for both men.

He was trying to get Anderson to lead, he knew being the smaller guy that he wasn't gonna be able to win leading the whole fight and getting countered, that wouldn't have went well at all. Everyone thought he was gonna get destroyed going into it, not bad going against someone who was using.

 

[JayElectra]

You realize that most guys go whole careers without one top ten win right? Matt Brown is ranked 5th in the world and has zero, we gonna pick him apart too?

To be fair, no one regards Matt Brown as highly as Nick Diaz.

 

[robjenkins2]

I love how folks cite his win over Robbie as an elite victory. But up until the last couple of years, Robbie's career seemed like it was heading south towards the average journeyman's route. He lost he's last fight in Strikeforce to Larkin and probably had the least amount of expectations of all the fighters coming over to the UFC on that deal. So let's put that victory into context. It means something now, because of Robbie's resurgence, but it didn't mean as much 3 years ago.

Nick is giving these elite fighters fits, but he's not beating most of them because he's not on their level. GSP is elite because he's essentially undefeated against elite competition. I'm not saying you have to be undefeated, but you have to win at least most of those fights. Other an Gomi, his resume is pretty blah.

Robbie was THE hot guy back then, the Mike Tyson of mma is what they called him.

 

[robjenkins2]

To be fair, no one regards Matt Brown as highly as Nick Diaz.

No they don't, but just stating that we could pick apart resumes all day if we wanted. It's not hard.

 

[robjenkins2]

Yes, if the ref was totally incompetent and didn't do his job at all, Nick would have "lost" that fight. Good point.

Absolutely not, he was coherent and defending the entire time. Go back and watch, he is blocking punches with one hand and has wrist control with the other.

 

[JayElectra]

He was trying to get Anderson to lead, he knew being the smaller guy that he wasn't gonna be able to win leading the whole fight and getting countered, that wouldn't have went well at all. Everyone thought he was gonna get destroyed going into it, not bad going against someone who was using.

Yeah, I mean, he fought him how should have. If he straight walked him down how usually walks his opponents down, he likely would have gotten KO'd, but he adjusted, fought smart, and, with the way things worked out, probably came out of that whole event looking better than when he went in considering the whole fallout.

 

[JayElectra]

No they don't, but just stating that we could pick apart resumes all day if we wanted. It's not hard.

Well, it's easier to do with Nick's than it is with a lot of fighters who are generally regarded as being of a comparable quality.

 

[ShreddinMMA]

You realize that most guys go whole careers without one top ten win right? Matt Brown is ranked 5th in the world and has zero, we gonna pick him apart too?

Really? That's the comparison you make?

I mean, lol.

A. No one is talking about Matt Brown. And Matt Brown is *relatively* elite based on his body of work in the current WW division. But most acknowledge he's a step below the most elite of the division. Besides, no one mentions him among the "WW greats" like Diaz is.

B. When you have to use the "most people go their whole careers without 1 top 10 win", that should be a sign that a 15 year fight veteran isn't that elite.

So far, I've only found sources that list BJ Penn and Gomi in the top 10 for wins. Nothing for Robbie Lawler yet. Paul Daley was unranked at the time of their fight.

That's 2.

2 top 10 wins in a 15 year career over 35 fights.

Nick is and always has been a gate keeper. Looks great beating up B level fighters, always fails against A level opponents.

 

[robjenkins2]

Yeah, I mean, he fought him how should have. If he straight walked him down how usually walks his opponents down, he likely would have gotten KO'd, but he adjusted, fought smart, and, with the way things worked out, probably came out of that whole event looking better than when he went in considering the whole fallout.

He would have been beaten badly had he done that for sure. A lot of people gained respect for him, went up 15 pounds, fought the best ever on juice and was never in trouble. 95% of WW's couldn't say/do the same.

 

[Big_Chief_Stove]

He always comes up short against the top guys and a young robbie lawler and gomi are his best wins, aside from that an old BJ Penn, the rest were mid teir fighters.

Now dont get me wrong he is exciting as hell but he is constantly complaining about guys just wanting to take him down (uh part of the sport and all the elite fighters learn how to deal with it) but when he fought Anderson he barely tried much, there was his chance to get into a war that he always wants and yet he didnt commit to much.

With condit instead of complaining about baby kicks he should have cut the ring off or countered but he is not that skilled at doing so.

Again he is fun to watch and beats guys who come to brawl but when you dont play his game he never tries to do something about it, he sits back and complains.

wins over paul daley, scott smith and frank shamrock

 

[deviake]

Absolutely not, he was coherent and defending the entire time. Go back and watch, he is blocking punches with one hand and has wrist control with the other.

Oh, I was being incredibly sarcastic / mocking, minus saying how incompetent the ref would have had to be to stop that fight. Nick was fine, it's completely absurd to me that the other person would even try to reach that far, not to mention the rest of their silly comment, which I didn't even bother with.