Why do people attribute GSP's success due to his "athleticism."

[theheater]

for some reason when you say a fighter is athletically superior youre discrediting their other skills and hard work. its not the case

gsp has superior athleticism

condit and diaz have superior chins and amazing cardio

bj is insanely flexible

hendricks hits like a truck

none of these statements means theyre a one trick pony or takes away from their other skills. no ww contenders were as athletic as gsp. sorry if that offends people but it shouldnt and its true

 

[cevo]

Georges amazing cardio is often overlooked. He's one of the few heavily muscled guys that can fight for 5 rounds like it's nothing.

 

[Steve08]

GSP's merits > BJ Penn's merits.

How is he not as gifted physically?

Well, it should be noted that BJ's parents were/are very wealthy, so they could afford to send him to California and receive world-class training from Ralph Gracie without even getting a job to pay for his cost of living; so BJ would regularly train, go back to his apartment and relax, train again a few hours later, come home and go to sleep then do it all again once he woke up.

But I sincerely believe that even if they were afforded the very same privileges, almost nobody in the world, including GSP, would go from white belt to blue belt under an instructor as accredited as Ralph Gracie in less than a full calendar year. There is nothing more to be said about that other than it is quite literally unheard of, because it is. BJ is or was one of the most physically gifted competitors in MMA history. There is simply no other explanation for the breathtaking speed in which he became a legitimately world-class grappler-- which, in and of itself, became only one facet of his MMA game. In his second fight against Hughes, he showed some of the best takedown defense inside the UFC Octagon. Ever.

 

[Phisher]

8 years ago when I started reading this forum the consensus was that GSP was THE most athletic guy in the sport. Now, he's "average Joe lunch pail" who did it all through hard work and his gritty determination.

Amazing how the narrative shifts over time.

 

[Shaungotti]

I think all TS is trying to say is GSP is not black.

Lol, this exactly what I thought TS was implying, as well.

 

[Phisher]

I think all TS is trying to say is GSP is not black.

What he's doing is riffing on the idiotic notion that MMA fans have that it's somehow unconscionable to be "athletic" in this sport and that "good athletes" don't deserve any credit as martial artists. I think that it's rooted in the antipathy that a lot of MMA fans have for "mainstream" sports where being an awesome athlete is celebrated.

In reality, most of the elite guys in MMA have some sort of physical advantage over their opposition (just like in every other sport on the planet).

 

[EmeliankoFan1]

Ok, fair enough. For the record, I certainly don't disagree that having very good conditioning, balance, etc. played at least some part in GSP's reign of domination.Again, agreed on the bolded part.

But how are you going to bring up GSP's incredible well-roundedness without also noting that most of his takedowns are hit against opponents who are either striking at GSP (see: the first double in GSP-Hendricks I), actively in the process of attempting to defend his jab (Koscheck, Alves), or who have been provoked into striking at him through feints or ring-cutting movements (Condit)?

GSP is one of the best MMA wrestlers because he is also one of the best MMA strikers. His game is such that you can't really separate one from the other. Any time GSP steps in to land a jab he may very well simply choose to instead make his penetration step and begin shooting in. They are distinct but over-lapping and seamless all at once.

No I dont agree with GSP being one of the best strikers in MMA but I do think he is a very good striker and one of the better WW strikers. He is a very intelligent fighter and striker as he minimizes his disadvantages on the feet and has a very good jab but GSP's game is based around wrestling and the takedown. GSP is one of the best at setting up and shooting for doubles and singles and his athleticism does aid him.

GSP is the most wellrounded fighter in MMA which I have stated and a very smart fighter with exceptional technique as he has shown he knows what he is doing. But If you have seen GSP out-wrestle fighters and stop Takedowns you are apparent in his athleticism. He has literally stopped takedowns on pure balance out maneuvering wrestlers on one foot staying on his feet through durations of takedown defenses. The man is exceptionally athletic and it is plain as day when you see him fight and stop fighters from taking him down and when he shoots. Its not his entire package but he is indeed athletic and some try to minimize it but it did help. He is similar to Jones and his range and silva and his hand eye coordination, it aids them similarly as most champions on that level usually have some genetic advantage.

 

[kuromusha]

GSP is way more athletic than Silva.

 

[Steve08]

No I dont agree with GSP being one of the best strikers in MMA but I do think he is a very good striker and one of the better WW strikers. He is a very intelligent fighter and striker as he minimizes his disadvantages on the feet and has a very good jab but GSP's game is based around wrestling and the takedown. GSP is one of the best at setting up and shooting for doubles and singles and his athleticism does aid him.

GSP is the most wellrounded fighter in MMA which I have stated and a very smart fighter with exceptional technique as he has shown he knows what he is doing. But If you have seen GSP out-wrestle fighters and stop Takedowns you are apparent in his athleticism. He has literally stopped takedowns on pure balance out maneuvering wrestlers on one foot staying on his feet through durations of takedown defenses. The man is exceptionally athletic and it is plain as day when you see him fight and stop fighters from taking him down, its not his entire package but he is indeed athletic and some try to minimize it but he is athletic. He is similar to Jones and his range and silva and his hand eye coordination, it aids them similarly.

I don't even understand what you're trying to get at now... of course GSP's athleticism helps him. That was never in dispute, nor did I ever deny that. So what's your point?

 

[ocill88]

He's not athletic , and explosive more like has a good work ethic , and does mma the right way

 

[EmeliankoFan1]

I don't even understand what you're trying to get at now... of course GSP's athleticism helps him. That was never in dispute, nor did I ever deny that. So what's your point?

My point is his athleticism was more important in his reign than some let off. As another poster stated some think that saying his athleticism helped him become the champion he is, is some how diminishing him as a fighter when it is not.

GSPs athleticism did aid him and I would think it aided him as much as Jones reach aided Jones and that is the point that I am getting at.

 

[Loiosh]

My point is his athleticism was more important in his reign than some let off. As another poster stated some think that saying his athleticism helped him become the champion he is, is some how diminishing him as a fighter when it is not.

GSPs athleticism did aid him and I would think it aided him as much as Jones reach aided Jones.

Well, that's demonstrably false.

 

[EmeliankoFan1]

Well, that's demonstrably false.

It would be too you but these are all opinions as some deem it true similar to Silva and his hand eye coordination.

His athleticism is one of the reasons why he was the champ he was just like jones reach attribute. Its not the only thing but those are main attributes that allowed them success. Jones reach allows him to stop fighters defensively from getting close and the ability to use his reach without getting hit. GSP's athleticism stopped him from getting taken down many times over and literally allowed him to stop takedowns on one foot. I have never seen a fighter do what GSP could athletically against very good wrestlers along with his athleticism aiding him offensively and even more so defensively.

This goes for every champion as they all had some genetic trait that made them better than others along with their skill. As I said GSP's athleticism aided him as much as jones reach and it is what allows both including Silva to be what they were.

Shalom.

 

[Power of Pain**]

Lol at you referring to his strength as if he never went to the gym to obtain it. If Nick Diaz tried lifting some weights, he would probably be as strong as Georges. The more weight you lift, --> stronger you are. That's common sense. You can't say "he's successful because he is stronger than others." Well anyone can get strong.

There are different type of strengths you idiot.

You could have a 265 pound dude who presses 600 pounds and he would get manhandle by a 225 pound wrestler who presses 425.

GSP himself said that he mainly hit the weights for bodybuilding purposes.

Mir tried to get as strong as guys like Lesnar and Carwin by bulking up but those two dudes were collegiate wrestlers so they had that developmental strength that Mir could just not obtain.

Sylvia was physically controlling the world's strongest man in their match but got physically owed by a smaller Couture.

Jon Jones is another example. A smart average dude would rather wrestle against the Rock then Jon Jones for obvious reasons.

 

[Power of Pain**]

Well some people say Forrest Griffin got really far even though he isn't athletic.

Only non coordinated geeks would say that Griffin is not athletic. He was blowing dudes out the water with pretty nice agility during the Ultimate Fighter team competition drills.

 

[DaGenius]

8 years ago when I started reading this forum the consensus was that GSP was THE most athletic guy in the sport. Now, he's "average Joe lunch pail" who did it all through hard work and his gritty determination.

Amazing how the narrative shifts over time.

Yeah..I remember that stuff too dude so you arent crazy

 

[brainwash]

There are different type of strengths you idiot.

You could have a 265 pound dude who presses 600 pounds and he would get manhandle by a 225 pound wrestler who presses 425.

GSP himself said that he mainly hit the weights for bodybuilding purposes.

Mir tried to get as strong as guys like Lesnar and Carwin by bulking up but those two dudes were collegiate wrestlers so they had that developmental strength that Mir could just not obtain.

Sylvia was physically controlling the world's strongest man in their match but got physically owed by a smaller Couture.

Jon Jones is another example. A smart average dude would rather wrestle against the Rock then Jon Jones for obvious reasons.

lol this guy. "There are different strengths you idiot." What you specified was that someone who has technique could beat someone who doesn't. You wrote a lot just to prove nothing.

 

[Power of Pain**]

GSPs athleticism did aid him and I would think it aided him as much as Jones reach aided Jones and that is the point that I am getting at.

The whole "Jones reach" being his major advantage to his success is beyond retarded.

He is not a good boxer within MMA standards and fights more using Muay Thai offense with knees or elbows on the inside as well as throwing lots of kicks from outside before he then gets the advantage while he closes in for the clinch.

The only time his reach comes into play is when he throws a spinning elbow or a forearm shot. Hell he hardly even throw jabs.

 

[Power of Pain**]

lol this guy. "There are different strengths you idiot." What you specified was that someone who has technique could beat someone who doesn't. You wrote a lot just to prove nothing.

What I specified is that someone who has "wrestling" strength is different from someone who has "weight lifting" strength being that "wrestling" strength is more valuable when it comes to fighting.

This is a common fact that only Sherdog geeks like yourself would dispute. Your posts consist of you showing how much shit you know about anything really.

LOL @ You geek.

 

[EmeliankoFan1]

The whole "Jones reach" being his major advantage to his success is beyond retarded.

He is not a good boxer within MMA standards and fights more using Muay Thai offense with knees or elbows on the inside as well as throwing lots of kicks from outside before he then gets the advantage while he closes in for the clinch.

The only time he reach comes into play is when he throws a spinning elbow or a forearm shot. Hell he hardly even throw jabs.

I adore Jones actually as well as GSP, those are two of my favorite fighters. All I was saying was that they have attributes that aid them similarly and in jones situation he has range and reach that he knows how to use well. Hence the term know how to use which is key for Jones as it would be a disadvantage if he did not know how to use it. Jones reach and long arms are a advantage as well as a disadvantage equally whereas GSP's athleticism is an absolute advantage. The issue is that all champions utilize something well genetically as that is what usually puts them ahead of the pack. Silva has his handeye coordination, Cain has his unusual Cardio and so on, they all utilize something equally. If jones had a good jab, he would be almost impossible to beat actually which is why I think he should move to another camp. I think he has absorbed all he could from the jackson family.