Why do Japanese fighters struggle so much in the UFC?

[gono btw]

What does this have to do with top Japanese fighters losing in the UFC?

Who knows ...lmao

 

[JosephTessaro]

Larger talent pool in the US
The US obviously has better PED's

 

[europe1]

What sort of training methods was he attached to that you feel were sub-par?

Training a lot of kata's. Absolutely abandoning having any striking guard (as in always holding his hands by his waist), because it was the traditional, honorable thing to do. He didn't always do this. Not studying any form of striking outside of his traditional brand of karate (sure everyone has their primary style, but normal fighters are at least conciouss and familiar of other arts). Not adapting his training/strategy based on which opponent he's fighting. Such things.

 

[Mike]

Most of the name fighters that came over were well past their prime. Gomi, Kawajiri, Kid, all extremely weathered by the time they came over.

Mma was a big fad in Japan back in the pride days. They seem to have largely moved on and aren't producing many top fighters anymore.


I think they've fallen behind the curve with things like training and weight cutting. And I don't think the extreme jet lag helps them and a lot of them should fly out sooner for their fights than they do

 

[Muppettoker]

Katsunori Kikuno could have been such a beast if he just accepted modern training and strategies. The arctype example of a fighter being let down due to his stubborness conserning those matters.

Dude had one of the slickest outside crescent kicks I’ve ever seen. Used to fold dudes.

 

[Guestx]

Training a lot of kata's. Absolutely abandoning having any striking guard (as in always holding his hands by his waist), because it was the traditional, honorable thing to do. He didn't always do this. Not studying any form of striking outside of his traditional brand of karate (sure everyone has their primary style, but normal fighters are at least conciouss and familiar of other arts). Not adapting his training/strategy based on which opponent he's fighting. Such things.

Regarding katas, I'm sure he practices them but I have a hard time believing they comprise a significant chunk of his training regimen.

As for the hands-by-his-waist thing, I'd be curious to know what karate style advises this or considers is "honorable."

I'm studying Shotokan right now and my instructor is always yelling at me to keep my hands up.

 

[Muppettoker]

Training a lot of kata's. Absolutely abandoning having any striking guard (as in always holding his hands by his waist), because it was the traditional, honorable thing to do. He didn't always do this. Not studying any form of striking outside of his traditional brand of karate (sure everyone has their primary style, but normal fighters are at least conciouss and familiar of other arts). Not adapting his training/strategy based on which opponent he's fighting. Such things.

It was strange, he seem to get worse and abandon good things as time went on. The Tony fight was a head scratcher

 

[Guestx]

Mma was a big fad in Japan back in the pride days. They seem to have largely moved on and aren't producing many top fighters anymore.

Considering the importance of martial arts and the "warrior spirit" in Japan, it seems strange to me that they would lose interest in MMA.

 

[Mike]

Kikuno was also approaching his mid thirties and had been through a ton of wars by the time he got to the ufc. Like Machida his style was heavily dependent on speed and reflexes. The lighter the weight class the harder it is to maintain a style like that as you get older.

 

[Mike]

Considering the importance of martial arts and the "warrior spirit" in Japan, it seems strange to me that they would lose interest in MMA.

Their pop culture seems really into fads. In a lot of ways they ran into the same problem the ufc is having. Popular fighters got old and there weren't enough interesting personalities to replace them.

The fighting is only one piece of the puzzle in Japan. Personality and showmanship go a long way too.

 

[europe1]

Dude had one of the slickest outside crescent kicks I’ve ever seen. Used to fold dudes.

Yeah. It truly was something special.

As for the hands-by-his-waist thing, I'd be curious to know what karate style advises this or considers is "honorable."

I'm studying Shotokan right now and my instructor is always yelling at me to keep my hands up.

He has a background in Kyokushin and Okinawan karate. With kyokushin, head punches are outlawed, so it makes more sense in that sport to not have a high guard. I'm guessing that it comes from there.

Regarding katas, I'm sure he practices them but I have a hard time believing they comprise a significant chunk of his training regimen.

I'm fairly certain I heard that in some old Dream event. Of course, we have no idea about how much he actually trains them. Machida did kata's for warm-up too.

 

[JuniorSonGoku]

Low T. Same reason they do poorly in most sports.

How many times is this thread going to be posted?

 

[BigMuffler]

Slightly off on population.....


http://www.worldometers.info/world-population/japan-population/

Wow I didn't realize the land of loli was that big a country, I thought their popularity was mainly due to being economically powerful.

 

[Muppettoker]

This thread gets posted at least once every few months

 

[europe1]

This thread gets posted at least once every few months

The "Where is Goran Reljic?" and "Who is Ryoto Machida?" threads of the world may wither and die but the "Why are Japanese fighter such underachievers" continue to live on into perpetuity.

 

[Muppettoker]

The "Where is Goran Reljic?" and "Who is Ryoto Machida?" threads of the world may wither and die but the "Why are Japanese fighter such underachievers" continue to live on into perpetuity.

I may have to start a ‘what is Arona doing these days?’ Thread. Haven’t seen it in a few months.

 

[ElKarlo]

It's age in some cases, the cage vs the ring in others.
Mostly though it's the fact that most gyms the good fighters are a medium fish in a small pond.
I used to train at a place with a decent pancrase guy. He could school basically everyone. He wasn't getting anything out of sparring or being with us. He needed to be with other high level guys. He wasn't so I don't think he could break through the plateau from low journey man to a decent pro

 

[pick999]

Yet,they just let a guy like Horiguchi just go away

 

[juanM3]

"That pisses me off, as a fan, when I bought those fights and later found out I was buying wrassling"

 

[Ultra O’Dia]

Gomi was totally legit. He just aged poorly because of his balls to the wall style. UFC got him after his prime.

On a different note, plenty of fighters from the older generation have had trouble transitioning from boxing rings to the octagon.

Gomi was Gaethje before Gaethje.

As to TS

Man, they mostly lost in Pride, too..... like, they are so game and tough, but.... just not great athletes, genetically. That shouldn’t come across as racist, it’s just the way it is. They don’t place well in many sports that are in any way related to the physical demands of MMA. It isn’t the gifts you were given, but what you make of them, and their fighters are courageous and humble and everything I love in MMA.... they just aren’t particularly agile, quick or strong.