Why do I still not think Jones is goat?

[GluttonforPunishment]

My op, yeah he’s good but I don’t see him in the same light others do i guess
There’s several things at play, maybe you might agree
His lack of knockouts in a big man division bothers me
His attacks on opponents knees bug me too- the eye pokes meh not so much but there’s been a bunch, more than anyone I can think of
The steroid thing, what is it twice? Can’t remember but it seems ugly. For sure he hid under the cage from USADA, but they were assholes to some fighters so I get it
His lack of humility, I’m surprised he doesn’t talk about himself in the 3rd person
The arrests ( his character) the domestic shit
I wouldn’t want his endorsement if I had a company for sure
The close fights with Gus and what’s his face , that a lot of people thought he Lost - the way he dropped Machida on his face unconscious from a standing choke , his hot mic stuff, his off camera mouth , his fake Christianity and he made DC cry (not nice) I don’t kmow- after he retires or loses , I’ll post a thread saying”he was never that good anyways “ because I just don’t think he is all that

Not reading all of that shit. Short answer... you're a pussy.

 

[PaulieVegas27]

Because you'd be right in that opinion?

 

[pick999]

The vast majority of your complaints are issues with character; not fighting ability. Everyone knows Jones is a prick but you provided a pretty weak argument about him being a bad fighter.

If a relatively new MMA was not overly impressed with Jones and hadn't seen his older fights, I honestly wouldn't be that surprised. People comment on how bad Stipe looked in that fight but honestly, Jones looked pretty bad himself and hasn't looked the same since the OSP fight IMHO.

With that being said, stating that the 2011-2017 version of Jones is not a GOAT contender is just fantasy regardless of PEDs (spoiler alert: all athletes use PEDs).

I have grown to hate Jones also but this is a 0/10 thread. You type like you're drunk

Jon looked dominant in that osp fight

 

[Pequeño Corey]

They aren’t singling him out

He’s one of 2 in the GOAT conversation who is absolutely guaranteed to have doped

Others don’t get shit because they weren’t caught

The mental gymnastics here is off the scale

Anyone liking your post has brain damage. It is logically and morally false

 

[Marko Polo]

Beat up guys who would be middleweights today using eye pokes and steroids. Struggled against anyone his own size where he couldn’t abuse his range using pokes even more after they changed the rules to make him close his hands. Reyes beat him up, so did Santos arguably. His careers been manufactured

 

[markg171]

Jon looked dominant in that osp fight

People just expected a finish against short notice #7 and it's clouded their judgment. And really he should've gotten that finish when he broke OSP's arm in the 2nd round with a headkick.

 

[markg171]

They aren’t singling him out

He’s one of 2 in the GOAT conversation who is absolutely guaranteed to have doped

Others don’t get shit because they weren’t caught

The mental gymnastics here is off the scale

Anyone liking your post has brain damage. It is logically and morally false

Even if you want to discount his career up until his failures as tainted he'd still since be 6-0 title fights across 2 weight classes without further failures.

Which is still a HOF career in its own right.

 

[Th3Sav4ge]

 

[kuroro]

the way he dropped Machida on his face unconscious from a standing choke

ffs shut up

 

[kuroro]

"It was totally respectful to me," Machida told SPORTV.com (via Google translation). "It was a shocking [end] to the story. Sometimes, those who hear may [wonder] if there was any disrespect, but he did his job, choked me and won. You can't ask him to make love to me, right?"

 

[GluttonforPunishment]

Mainly feminine cycles.

 

[Dbreiden83080]

The close fights that’s a ridiculous argument. Every all-time great boxer or MMA fighter has had close fights and close wins. Hell Muhammad Ali had a bunch of really close wins and some were controversial. Norton always believed he was robbed twice against Ali..

 

[Doctor Grudge]

The close fights that’s a ridiculous argument. Every all-time great boxer or MMA fighter has had close fights and close wins. Hell Muhammad Ali had a bunch of really close wins and some were controversial. Norton always believed he was robbed twice against Ali..

Not saying anyones wrong, but I would think he's a little bias.

 

[markg171]

The close fights that’s a ridiculous argument. Every all-time great boxer or MMA fighter has had close fights and close wins. Hell Muhammad Ali had a bunch of really close wins and some were controversial. Norton always believed he was robbed twice against Ali..

People are really holding Jon maybe maybe not losing a decision by 1 single round against him

Meanwhile his competitors have been knocked the fuck out and submitted.

It’s ridiculous

 

[Mind Mine]

PEDs = No GOAT

Repeatedly (and thats the only failed tests we know about)

Which GOAT candidate had as many fights under USADA as Jones? How did their record look?How many clean fights vs dirty? Things sherdog Jones haters run from

 

[MRT]

My op, yeah he’s good but I don’t see him in the same light others do i guess
There’s several things at play, maybe you might agree
His lack of knockouts in a big man division bothers me
His attacks on opponents knees bug me too- the eye pokes meh not so much but there’s been a bunch, more than anyone I can think of
The steroid thing, what is it twice? Can’t remember but it seems ugly. For sure he hid under the cage from USADA, but they were assholes to some fighters so I get it
His lack of humility, I’m surprised he doesn’t talk about himself in the 3rd person
The arrests ( his character) the domestic shit
I wouldn’t want his endorsement if I had a company for sure
The close fights with Gus and what’s his face , that a lot of people thought he Lost - the way he dropped Machida on his face unconscious from a standing choke , his hot mic stuff, his off camera mouth , his fake Christianity and he made DC cry (not nice) I don’t kmow- after he retires or loses , I’ll post a thread saying”he was never that good anyways “ because I just don’t think he is all that

The issue with this line of thinking is that a decent chunk of what you have posted has nothing to do with skill and accomplishment inside the cage.

Having said that, if your definition of 'GOAT' or greatness is more expansive, and encompasses things like character, personality, sportsmanship, etc., then your argument can be considered in that light.

Otherwise, the critique relies a fair bit on 'I don't like/respect him as a person'...which is fine, and the majority of fans likely share that sentiment, but I'm not sure that colours most people's opinion within 'MMA GOAT' discussions.

Personally, I think GSP, Silva, Jones, Fedor, DJ...all have a good argument based solely upon skill and accomplishment...with GSP the cream of the crop when we add in things like character and sportsmanship, being a good representative of the sport, no PED cloud over his legacy, no outside-the-cage drama, etc. (DJ runs a close 2nd here, but he just did not have the widespread appeal/recognition/etc.)...so in a tight race, and with a more liberal definition of 'greatness', then perhaps these other things can be argued to matter. If we go solely by inside-the-cage, then it is hard to not recognize Jones as being at least on the same level as the other GOAT candidates and it comes down to how we prioritize the small-ish differences between them (finishes, dominance, defenses, longevity, skill set, etc.).

 

[cade187]

I don’t kmow- after he retires or loses , I’ll post a thread saying”he was never that good anyways “ because I just don’t think he is all that

I gave you a like just for this comment lol.

The humility thing... I actually hated Jones when he was younger and doing the whole fake good guy routine, because it was clear that it was fake. I actually don't mind Jones since he embraced being an asshole. He's not one of my favourite fighters, and he's not my pick for goat, but I don't mind him these days.

 

[TR1]

Which GOAT candidate had as many fights under USADA as Jones? How did their record look?How many clean fights vs dirty? Things sherdog Jones haters run from

Weird argument to take, downright weird.

Jones after USADA:

Looks medicore vs OSP
pops vs DC, no contest
Picograms vs Gus
Clearly beats A. Smith
Squeeks by (and arguably loses) vs middling Reyes and Santos
Clearly beats Gane
Meaningless win over fossil Stipe

Khabib since USADA:
Destroys Justin
Destroys Porier
Destroys Conor
Clearly beats Al
Destroys MJ
Destroys Borboza
Beats nobody Horcher

I guess if we just take USADA era, in which Jones continued cheating, Khabib is the GOAT.

Note: I don't actually think Khabib is the GOAT, but he has looked vastly better in USADA era than fraud jones.

 

[Mind Mine]

Weird argument to take, downright weird.

Jones after USADA:

Looks medicore vs OSP
pops vs DC, no contest
Picograms vs Gus
Clearly beats A. Smith
Squeeks by (and arguably loses) vs middling Reyes and Santos
Clearly beats Gane
Meaningless win over fossil Stipe

Khabib since USADA:
Destroys Justin
Destroys Porier
Destroys Conor
Clearly beats Al
Destroys MJ
Destroys Borboza
Beats nobody Horcher

I guess if we just take USADA era, in which Jones continued cheating, Khabib is the GOAT.

Note: I don't actually think Khabib is the GOAT, but he has looked vastly better in USADA era than fraud jones.

Literally nobody on sherdog has Khabib a GOAT but you buddy. You typed all of this about a great fighter with a short career NOBODY on this forum has GOAT. You do? Well deal with the fact you are an outlier. Type a mountain of nothing while you can’t refute a damn thing I said. When Jones career regressed you don’t want to address it could just be age. So Fedor gets the benefit for going from an untested organization looking like Zeus to looking like Elmer Fudd in the US gets a pass that’s GOAT material? Jones who is superior in every highlight or career accolade than Khabib in every regard and continued to outperform every other candidate in accolades after USADA, after suspensions, after layoffs, after hard times he caused in his personal life. He continued to perform. Fuck your sense of morality. The man is here to win at all costs in a blood sport. Cry more. Ya goof. Khabib wasn’t even in the UFC by the time Jones was popping hot. Many had him GOAT BEFORE he popped hot. You sound gotten to

 

[TR1]

Literally nobody on sherdog has Khabib a GOAT but you buddy. You typed all of this about a great fighter with a short career NOBODY on this forum has GOAT. You do? Well deal with the fact you are an outlier. Type a mountain of nothing while you can’t refute a damn thing I said. When Jones career regressed you don’t want to address it could just be age. So Fedor gets the benefit for going from an untested organization looking like Zeus to looking like Elmer Fudd in the US gets a pass that’s GOAT material? Jones who is superior in every highlight or career accolade than Khabib in every regard and continued to outperform every other candidate in accolades after USADA, after suspensions, after layoffs, after hard times he caused in his personal life. He continued to perform. Fuck your sense of morality. The man is here to win at all costs in a blood sport. Cry more. Ya goof. Khabib wasn’t even in the UFC by the time Jones was popping hot. Many had him GOAT BEFORE he popped hot. You sound gotten to

You sound upset that your dogshit USADA argument is moronic and falls apart.

Even Khabib has a better USADA career than can Jones.

Cheating fraud. Through and through.

Many had him GOAT BEFORE he popped hot.

LOL. Jones fans still struggling to understand why being exposed as a cheat might knock him out of GOAT consideration by many.


Jones is a cowardly fraud. Cry more.