Why did The Patriot suck and Braveheart succeed?

[El Che]

Jason Issacs is awesome in everything he does. If you haven't seen Death of Stalin yet, treat yourself.

lmao i love that movie. As a history nerd on top of enjoying the cast i laugh way too much on that movie.

Isaacs is a great actor. I really liked him in Brotherhood an old crime drama where he's in the Irish mob(I think, it's been a long time since I've seen it) that only had 3 seasons I think.

Ralph Fiennes is an example of how much that process can cost an actor. He said that getting into the head-space of Amon Goth fucked with him so much, he told his agent not to put him forward for any more roles like that.

That's awful and who could blame him not wanting to do more. He's a brilliant actor. I have immense respect for actors who can do that. I know it wouldn't be for just anyone though and it is sad when it negatively affects the person. I can only imagine the stress it would put on the mind, body and spirit.

 

[KnightTemplar]

lmao i love that movie. As a history nerd on top of enjoying the cast i laugh way too much on that movie.

Isaacs is a great actor. I really liked him in Brotherhood an old crime drama where he's in the Irish mob(I think, it's been a long time since I've seen it) that only had 3 seasons I think.

That's awful and who could blame him not wanting to do more. He's a brilliant actor. I have immense respect for actors who can do that. I know it wouldn't be for just anyone though and it is sad when it negatively affects the person. I can only imagine the stress it would put on the mind, body and spirit.

Scott Glenn, in preparation to play Jack Crawford in Silence of the Lambs, spent time with VICAP, the elite FBI unit that tracks serial killers. VICAP have an audio tape made by two serial killers as they torture their victim to death. It's about 30 minutes long, and VICAP make their new recruits listen to it, in order to desensitize them to the horrific nature of the crimes they investigate.

Glenn lasted less than two minutes and left the room in tears. He said it completely changed his views on capital punishment. Before then, he'd been anti-death penalty. After listening to the tape, he knew that some criminals have to be executed.

He refused to reprise the role of Crawford for Red Dragon, because getting into that frame of mind took too much of a toll on him emotionally.

 

[650lb Sumo]

I'm Scottish, and even I thought Longshanks was a badass motherfucker.

I think we've had this conversation before, but your comment implies that Scottish people should be against Edward I, whereas in fact many were on his side.

As to why Braveheart was more successful, I'd say the setting of Mediaeval Britain is more compelling than 18th century North America, and apparently the plot of The Patriot, which I haven't seen, is even more cringe and juvenile than that of Braveheart so maybe that was finally too much for people.

 

[KnightTemplar]

I think we've had this conversation before, but your comment implies that Scottish people should be against Edward I, whereas in fact many were on his side.

As to why Braveheart was more successful, I'd say the setting of Mediaeval Britain is more compelling than 18th century North America, and apparently the plot of The Patriot, which I haven't seen, is even more cringe and juvenile than that of Braveheart so maybe that was finally too much for people.

The majority of Scots on Edward's side were noblemen who held lands in England. Including Robert de Bruce's family. Bruce himself was trained as a Knight in England, and some Englishmen fought for him during the Wars of Independence. The situation wasn't quite as black and white as some believe.

I believe there was some controversy regarding the character Gibson played in The Patriot, as he was a slave owner in real life.

 

[650lb Sumo]

The majority of Scots on Edward's side were noblemen who held lands in England. Including Robert de Bruce's family. Bruce himself was trained as a Knight in England, and some Englishmen fought for him during the Wars of Independence. The situation wasn't quite as black and white as some believe.

I believe there was some controversy regarding the character Gibson played in The Patriot, as he was a slave owner in real life.

Well the border was very debatable in those days and indeed the Norman upper class weren't as invested in that kind of division. In fact Guisborough Priory not too far from me, was founded by Robert de Brus, from whom Robert the Bruce descended, and remained under the family's patronage until Dissolution.

Still to say that most of the Scottish people on Edward's side were aristocrats is obviously an exaggeration.

It's also wrong to call the Scottish 'Scots' because the Scots were only one of the groups who formed the Scottish people. They were not a majority and in fact were despised and oppressed by the others.

Whether and to what extent RTB was trained as a knight in England seems to be speculative.

Of course there were Flemish, Irish and Welsh involved as well plus I suppose small numbers of others. I'm sure either side would have allied with Australian Aborigines if they had thought it would help them come out on top.

No doubt the next time this subject comes up you will be posting away again as though this conversation didn't happen.

Anyway maybe also that other toothcrackingly cringe film The Last of the Mohicans got in there first and occupied a lot of the market The Patriot was aiming for.

 

[KnightTemplar]

Well the border was very debatable in those days and indeed the Norman upper class weren't as invested in that kind of division. In fact Guisborough Priory not too far from me, was founded by Robert de Brus, from whom Robert the Bruce descended, and remained under the family's patronage until Dissolution.

Still to say that most of the Scottish people on Edward's side were aristocrats is obviously an exaggeration.

It's also wrong to call the Scottish 'Scots' because the Scots were only one of the groups who formed the Scottish people. They were not a majority and in fact were despised and oppressed by the others.

Whether and to what extent RTB was trained as a knight in England seems to be speculative.

Of course there were Flemish, Irish and Welsh involved as well plus I suppose small numbers of others. I'm sure either side would have allied with Australian Aborigines if they had thought it would help them come out on top.

No doubt the next time this subject comes up you will be posting away again as though this conversation didn't happen.

Anyway maybe also that other toothcrackingly cringe film The Last of the Mohicans got in there first and occupied a lot of the market The Patriot was aiming for.

The upper classes in 13th Century England and Scotland cared far more about personal wealth and power than patriotism.

Nothing much has changed in the last 700 years or so, then.

Scots was widely used from the late 13th Century onward to describe the native inhabitants. So, as usual, I am right and you are wrong. No doubt the next time this subject comes up, you will try to lecture me on the history of my own country. And fail just as spectacularly.

How dare you suggest that a film starring the God of Acting Himself, Danial Day-Lewis, is less than perfect! Blasphemy!

 

[El Chimpo]

The fucking scene where Mel goes bananas with the hatchet is peak

Patriot is dope
Braveheart is dope

 

[Jack Reacheround]

Both suck, IMO.

 

[gspieler]

Both great.