Why did the Lions Den fall apart?

[Dbreiden83080]

Ego for one. Part of the reason Ken Shamrock wanted to fight Tito so badly was because Tito had disrespected some of his lions den fighters. But Ken Didn’t train with anybody except his lions den fighters. So it wasn’t exactly proper preparation for his training camp against Tito.

 

[Pierced7681]

I think there is a lot of truth to TheMaster's post. Ken Shamrock was a huge name at the time and he brought awareness and attention to the UFC. Remember, that was their top-selling PPV to date. And Ken Shamrock was a main-event wrestler during arguably the most popular wrestling era of all-time so he was definitely not only helping with PPV buys, but with overall attention and notice as well.

At the same time, to say MMA was in a state where it had to be saved while it was selling out arenas in Japan and drawing the attention of essentially an entire nation on NYE seems a bit questionable.

I disagree. Ken went 1-2 in pride after coming back from being a mid carder in the WWF and then got his ass kicked by Tito, who promoted the hell out of the event beforehand by smashing all of Kens lions den crew. Tito was the guy keeping the ufc afloat with his antics and everyone wanted to see him lose.

 

[ImLovinIt]

Same thing can be said about militech camp

 

[Spookv]

Because Ken is a prick. That's the truth of it all.

 

[TheNinja]

I think their style became a bit outdated as the sport and training science and knowledge grew. Like the old football coach who would try to toughen up his players by not giving them water breaks or the old boxing guys who tried to learn to take punches by knocking each other out.

People have gotten smarter about training over time. Some old school guys didn't evolve.

 

[Kforcer]

I disagree. Ken went 1-2 in pride after coming back from being a mid carder in the WWF and then got his ass kicked by Tito, who promoted the hell out of the event beforehand by smashing all of Kens lions den crew. Tito was the guy keeping the ufc afloat with his antics and everyone wanted to see him lose.

Well, I think you're wrong. Far fewer people knew who Tito was. Tito had headlined other PPVs and not done the numbers he did with Ken. So undeniably Ken was part of the equation. Whatever your perception of Ken was, he was a big name. Definitely a much, much bigger name than Tito at the time. And he brought in PPV numbers.

 

[The Schmoop]

Their methods and training were great for early competition. They did have some world class fighters for their day but Ken went to WWF and Frank wanted to be the king. I’m not entirely sure what became of Mezger. I believe he went his own way as well. MMA is obviously an individual sport but a gym will not maintain any longevity when everyone wants to be the focal point. They wanted to be the best, individually. Egos and training archaic methods, in short.

 

[Paolo Delutis]

Ken Shamrock had some killers coming out of there for a second idk why he isn’t still training fighters, with how rigorous his training was I think he’d still be producing top talent.

The brothers couldnt get along and divided the gym..

This is why we cant have nice things ..shamrock bros

 

[Kforcer]

I’m not entirely sure what became of Mezger.

Mezger moved to Dallas and founded his own gym initially called Lion's Den Dallas. Whatever its name, it was basically the end of Lion's Den San Diego.

 

[TeenageMutantLesnarTurtle]

Hammer House > Lions Den.

Btw did anyone see that Frye/Takayama fight just now? holy shit.

 

[Tuf_guy]

Ken Shamrock had some killers coming out of there for a second idk why he isn’t still training fighters, with how rigorous his training was I think he’d still be producing top talent.

Not enough guys eating eggs and steak like one of his experts suggested.

 

[Kforcer]

Hammer House > Lions Den.

Btw did anyone see that Frye/Takayama fight just now? holy shit.

At least neither of them got spit on, like poor Oyama.

But the craziest part was Bob Sapp. The Beast is something else, icing a dude like Tamura that Frank Shamrock couldn't beat in 21 seconds or something.

 

[Pierced7681]

Well, I think you're wrong. Far fewer people knew who Tito was. Tito had headlined other PPVs and not done the numbers he did with Ken. So undeniably Ken was part of the equation. Whatever your perception of Ken was, he was a big name. Definitely a much, much bigger name than Tito at the time. And he brought in PPV numbers.

You know what, I’ll admit that Ken did his part in drawing ppv numbers and I’ve undervalued his place in mma history, but I still think more people wanted to see Tito lose than Ken win.

 

[funkexpress]

Look at who was running it and think harder in what you asked.

 

[JSN]

I think their style became a bit outdated as the sport and training science and knowledge grew. Like the old football coach who would try to toughen up his players by not giving them water breaks or the old boxing guys who tried to learn to take punches by knocking each other out.

People have gotten smarter about training over time. Some old school guys didn't evolve.

Most definitely.

I dont think that most people realize that the Lion’s Den was unrecognizable compare to what they picture an mma gym looking like. It had far more in common with the WCW Power Plant- essentially a proving ground for toughness but little else.

 

[Kforcer]

First off Frank was thrown outta Lion's Den by Ken after Ken hit the lil bitch boy with a computer. And as far as Guy packing up. Packing up what? Guy came out maybe a couple times a year if that,he had his own kickboxing skool in Dallas way before he got jumped in to. Be a legit Lion's Den fighter. I was Ken's first fighter than vernon than Noah.if you want to see the real OG LION'S DEN GUYS GO TO. MY FACEBOOK PAGE or Ken has it on is also. Guy came years later and Jason and Frank came right outta folsom prison for armed robbery wit hair down to his waist & no bullshit Ken almost killed him cuz before I wanted to jump him in but he said that he needed to fear & respect him.

Well, I'd love to hear your firsthand take on how things were at the Lion's Den. So Ken didn't just smash Frank's computer, as it says in Beyond the Lion's Den, but actually fought with him?

 

[IsaacIrvine]

Here's my memory of the Lodi, CA gym closing down.

Ken went to wrestling and we didn't see him again. We didn't have a purpose after that in my opinion. Ken was the figurehead but the fights and the management came under him with Bob - Frank was on his own for a few weeks running classes with Scott and Vernon. It happened pretty fast after that. I remember Scott saying its over. From my memory, Frank moved to the bay area and Mo Smith went with him. Nothing against Guy, but I only saw him in Lodi three or four times in the years I was there. I started hanging out after UFC 1 through the breakup of the gym. Dudes would show up and train like a camp before an event - That's when I saw Guy or Tre.

The gym wasn't like a school either. If it was an organized thing, it would have lasted. Nobody paid for classes or signed a waiver that I remember. No advertisements or anything. The gym was in an industrial park and looked like an auto body shop. I think at the height of the popularity about 12 of us would show up and roll around. Scott, Frank, Vernon, and the other fighters would teach classes.

Hope that helps some of you understand the story a little more. It was a great time in my life and looking back - we were all just kids with zero clue what we were experiencing in the moment. If you told me I'd be telling stories about the Lions Den back then I would have laughed. Back then, we didn't have forums like this - we all kept up in this giant email thread hahaha.

 

[ILIKEROCKHOLD]

Dang thats a rough TRT 60.

Somehow having muscles like that at 60 looks worse than your average 60.

 

[Mavrilicious]

Is that book good? I’ve heard it wasn’t put together very well but I’ve also read that it was one of the best combat sports books of all time

Would love to hear someone's thoughts on this. Love reading about fighters lives.

But slogging through something like BJ penns book was painfully poorly written/edited

 

[TriangleMonkey]

Last I heard of them it was Mezger running Lions Den in I believe Dallas….he started the original coaching of the original “Team Takedown” guys. All NCAA wrestling studs.

I fought one of them, and Guy was his corner. Mofo went over to warm-up area and mad-dogged stared at my entire warm-up routine prior to us walking out. I had to block out fucking Guy Mezger staring at me within 6-10ft that whole time LoL.