Why Aren't There Heavier Women's Divisions?

WMMA was truly born after Cyborg VS Carano, but the 145 women's division died not too long after.

135 became popular, and Cyborg couldn't get a fight at 145 even before her suspension.

And right now, 135 is barely deep enough to even have a real sized roster. They had to book Ronda against Bethe due to a lack of talent.

They had to skip the 125 division to force women from that weight class to compete at 135.

Once 125 becomes official, I reckon the women's BW division will die out as well, just like the 145 division.
 
A woman who fights at 135 walks around at 145-160.

A fit woman doesn't get much heavier than that often.

How many fit women do you know that are over $1.60?
They all cost over a $1.60 where I live
 
And they're both grotesque.

Would not sell PPVs.
The William sisters are some of the most famous and recognizable athletes on the planet and draw huge crowds worldwide. Since when did fame and recognition not translate to PPV numbers?

I guess UFC fans are different from sports fans, being more interested in looks than talent and athleticism.
 
Screen-Shot-2014-04-13-at-11.10.02-PM.png
Holy....i forgot about that
 
Ronda wouldn't fight Cyborg because she knew if she lost it would ruin her image. She wanted to be known as the greatest woman fighter in the world without having to prove it.

The vast majority of her fans have no idea what weight she fights at or if there are even weight classes, they just know that Ronda is the best ever because the hype worked. Cyborg could have killed that hype so she didn't risk it.

For the casual fans (the vast majority of Ronda fans) it's not about weight class or a few pounds here or there, it's about who's the baddest woman ever and as long as it's Ronda they're happy. I think they would have been shocked to find out there were bigger girls that could beat her. I doubt that thought ever crossed their mind. They were told by the UFC and Ronda herself that she could literally beat anyone regardless of weight or sex. In my opinion it is then at least childish to then hide behind an arbitrary weight limit when a legitimate contender steps up.

I agree with what you say about most of Rousey's fans. In fact, most of Cyborg's fans criticism of Rousey's fans is right on the money.

On the other hand, Cyborg fans are almost as bad. They pretend that Cyborg gained no advantage from taking steroids (why do athletes take them if they don't give an advantage - because they taste good?). They pretend that Cyborg and Rousey are the same size (why can't Cyborg make 135 as easily as Rousey then?) They rightly call out Rousey for saying she would return to 145 and then changing her mind, but then give Cyborg a pass for saying she could make 135 and then changing her mind. They give Cyborg a pass for calling out smaller fighters, rather thant going after bigger fighters like Gabi, or other bigger women in other organizations.

Cyborg would beat Rousey; anyone who follows MMA knows that 15 pounds weight difference in the cage is huge when both are champs. The only current champs who went up in weight to fight another current champ was Penn, and we know how that worked out, and Conor (whose fight didn't happen because RDA got injured) - and note how poorly Conor did against the barely top ten LW Nate. What challenge is it for Cyborg to fight a smaller fighter? This is obvious, but Cyborg fans are as blinded by it as Rousey fans are by Rousey's nonsense.

And how about Cyborg saying she won't fight Nunes because they're from the same country. Imagine if Rousey had said that about Tate or Holm? But its okay because its Cyborg?

And finally, Rousey has said zilch in the last year, since being humiliated by Holm, but Cyborg is still calling her out; and yet Cyborg's fans are pretending that Rousey is still the mouthy one, using quotes from a year or several years ago. Rousey has learnt her lesson, yet Cyborg is still calling her out as if Rousey wasn't now a basically retired, irrelevant fighter who's at best ranked 4th at 135. Cyborg does this because she wants the easy money. Why Cyborg's fans go along with it makes no more sense than Rousey's fans going along with Rousey in the past claiming she could beat Cain, or should have won Olympic gold, or that GSP was a lousy MMA fighter, or any of her other nonsense. Both sets of fans are living in a dream world.
 
Dana does not want Cyborg to be the face of wmma I would guess...He talked a lot of smack about her in past...

UFC has women's Strawweight, they have men's Flyweight and Bantomweight, yet they wont make a womans 145 lb class...People say Cyborg has no competition, but you can say that for other classes as well...Demetrious Johnson and Joanna Jedrzejczyk, for example...Cyborg is a finisher and is very well known, yet she has zero exposure...

Cant wait to see her wreck another fighter next weekend...She is more exciting than all the women combined. She is also more exciting than 85% of the men as well...
 
Huge difference between Cyborg and other divisional champs. Many of the women Cyborg has fought (50%) have moved up a weight class to fight her. 25% have moved up two weight classes (yes, at 145 1/4 of her opponents have fought at 125). If half of Stipe's victories had come from LHW and MW while he remained at heavyweight, how much shit would he get?

That is also an indication of how little talent there is in that weight class. Half of Carano's fights were against someone who moved up.

There are (via Tapology) 269 WSW fighters, vs 118 WFW. Women's 145 is not just the smallest class in terms of talent. And several of the top ten have losses to 135 lbs. women. Coenen has lost to Tate and Roxanne Modaferri (who now fights at 125) and she is the #2 ranked women's fighter at 145. Julia Budd (#3) has lost to Rousey and Nunes. Tweet (#4) lost to Rousey, and Blencowe, who rounds out the top five, is 7-5, with three losses to women who have fought at 135 and one who has fought at 125.
 
Make a super heavyweight TLC division, and this woman will reign.

throw-table-catch-chair.gif
 
I agree with what you say about most of Rousey's fans. In fact, most of Cyborg's fans criticism of Rousey's fans is right on the money.

On the other hand, Cyborg fans are almost as bad. They pretend that Cyborg gained no advantage from taking steroids (why do athletes take them if they don't give an advantage - because they taste good?). They pretend that Cyborg and Rousey are the same size (why can't Cyborg make 135 as easily as Rousey then?) They rightly call out Rousey for saying she would return to 145 and then changing her mind, but then give Cyborg a pass for saying she could make 135 and then changing her mind. They give Cyborg a pass for calling out smaller fighters, rather thant going after bigger fighters like Gabi, or other bigger women in other organizations.

Cyborg would beat Rousey; anyone who follows MMA knows that 15 pounds weight difference in the cage is huge when both are champs. The only current champs who went up in weight to fight another current champ was Penn, and we know how that worked out, and Conor (whose fight didn't happen because RDA got injured) - and note how poorly Conor did against the barely top ten LW Nate. What challenge is it for Cyborg to fight a smaller fighter? This is obvious, but Cyborg fans are as blinded by it as Rousey fans are by Rousey's nonsense.

And how about Cyborg saying she won't fight Nunes because they're from the same country. Imagine if Rousey had said that about Tate or Holm? But its okay because its Cyborg?

And finally, Rousey has said zilch in the last year, since being humiliated by Holm, but Cyborg is still calling her out; and yet Cyborg's fans are pretending that Rousey is still the mouthy one, using quotes from a year or several years ago. Rousey has learnt her lesson, yet Cyborg is still calling her out as if Rousey wasn't now a basically retired, irrelevant fighter who's at best ranked 4th at 135. Cyborg does this because she wants the easy money. Why Cyborg's fans go along with it makes no more sense than Rousey's fans going along with Rousey in the past claiming she could beat Cain, or should have won Olympic gold, or that GSP was a lousy MMA fighter, or any of her other nonsense. Both sets of fans are living in a dream world.
I don't think it's a given at all that Cyborg would beat Ronda. It's a classic matchup and would be the biggest fight you could make in WMMA. That alone is reason enough to do that fight. Ronda was 135 champ, Cyborg is 145 champ. The fairest way to do the fight is at 140, with no belt on the line. Cyborg would have to cut more, Ronda would have to cut less. Each has an advantage and a disadvantage. The fight would not revolve around 5 lbs, it would depend on who was able to impose their will on the other. 5 pounds isn't going to keep Ronda from grabbing an armbar and finishing the fight. Ronda isn't going to be easier to knock out because she weighs 5lbs less than Cyborg. 5lbs won't make a difference on the mat or on the feet, only in the clinch where Ronda should still have an advantage and Cyborg would still want to avoid that. Cyborg wanted this fight. Why? Because she stood to gain money and fame and a chance to personally shut Ronda up. Ronda didn't want this fight. Why? Because she stood to lose her unbeatable aura, reputation and credibility which was more valuable than any one-time (albeit huge) payday.

The Cyborg steroids thing is way old news and the biggest double standard in MMA. If you want to say Cyborg is still on steroids then you have to say that Ronda's also on steroids because there's no evidence either way, just pictures of each that people say look suspicious. Personally, I would be extremely surprised if it could be proven that Ronda has had an absolutely clean career.

Just because Ronda has shut up about everyone lately doesn't erase all the crap she did say and doesn't give her victim status if people continue to call her out. I doubt she will ever come back but she has never said she won't so people keep hoping.

Cyborg should not try to make exceptions for other Brazilians. That's weak and unacceptable.
 
I don't think it's a given at all that Cyborg would beat Ronda.

Wish more people could see this. Yeah, I would give the edge to Cyborg, particularly now, but Ronda was beating top-ranked 145 lbs. women (meaning, top ten) in her first few fights in MMA. Cyborg has never shown any ability on the ground outside of top control during a BJJ tournament (I am sure she trains for it, we just have not seen it). Right now, her ability to defend an armbar is as nebulous as Ronda's ability to put together a technically solid combination on the feet. The potential is there, but right now it is just something we have heard about.

There is really only one way to settle this shit, and both women have dropped the fucking ball.
 
I don't think it's a given at all that Cyborg would beat Ronda. It's a classic matchup and would be the biggest fight you could make in WMMA. That alone is reason enough to do that fight. Ronda was 135 champ, Cyborg is 145 champ. The fairest way to do the fight is at 140, with no belt on the line. Cyborg would have to cut more, Ronda would have to cut less. Each has an advantage and a disadvantage. The fight would not revolve around 5 lbs, it would depend on who was able to impose their will on the other. 5 pounds isn't going to keep Ronda from grabbing an armbar and finishing the fight. Ronda isn't going to be easier to knock out because she weighs 5lbs less than Cyborg. 5lbs won't make a difference on the mat or on the feet, only in the clinch where Ronda should still have an advantage and Cyborg would still want to avoid that. Cyborg wanted this fight. Why? Because she stood to gain money and fame and a chance to personally shut Ronda up. Ronda didn't want this fight. Why? Because she stood to lose her unbeatable aura, reputation and credibility which was more valuable than any one-time (albeit huge) payday.

The Cyborg steroids thing is way old news and the biggest double standard in MMA. If you want to say Cyborg is still on steroids then you have to say that Ronda's also on steroids because there's no evidence either way, just pictures of each that people say look suspicious. Personally, I would be extremely surprised if it could be proven that Ronda has had an absolutely clean career.

Just because Ronda has shut up about everyone lately doesn't erase all the crap she did say and doesn't give her victim status if people continue to call her out. I doubt she will ever come back but she has never said she won't so people keep hoping.

Cyborg should not try to make exceptions for other Brazilians. That's weak and unacceptable.

Weigh-in weight with 24 hours to rehydrate doesn't mean much. Cyborg is 15-20 pounds heavier than Rousey at fit weight (based on Cyborg's post showing her at 175 pounds and Rousey walking around at a fit 155 in TUF. Unless Rousey has vastly better technique than Cyborg (and there's no indication of that), she's simply too small to beat Cyborg. There's a reason for weight divisions.

They could get around that by having them fight at 145 (or fairer, 155) with a weigh-in just before going into the cage. That fight would be a classic matchup, and either could win - because then they really would be the same size.

The difference between Cyborg and Rousey concerning PED's is that Cyborg failed a test, Rousey never did. That's not a double standard, its simply a fact. The debate then moves on to how long do benefits last - there is growing evidence that it can last decades (much of the tests done on mice admittedly - but then again, the tests that said benefits were limited in duration were also done on mice). The question of whether Cyborg is still benefiting doesn't have much to do with double standards, or even Cyborg vs Rousey, its a much bigger issue concerning how long suspensions should be. For instance, in the 2016 Olympics, America had a sprinter Gatlin who twice was popped, but was again allowed to run (and win silver); many feel that was unfair, and those complaining probably have never heard of either Cyborg or Rousey (MMA is a still a very niche sport, even compared to track and field).

And you're a smart guy, you know very well that its impossible to prove a negative in most things (binary questions in formal systems like math being the exception), so no it can't be proven that Rousey (or any other athlete in any sport in the world) has had an absolutely clean career. I'm kind of surprised to see that in your post, you typically stick to science.

I don't think it has much to do with Rousey getting victim status (she's extremely rich, I think most people would love to be that kind of victim), just that its decidedly odd to repeatedly call out someone who hasn't said anything for a year. But if its a question of taking offense at Rousey, I'd say Cain and GSP have prior claims to Cyborg (she said GSP was bad at MMA, and during a streak where he hadn't even lost a round in many defenses, interestingly enough Rousey has never said Cyborg is bad at MMA, just that she thought she was a cheater).
 
Weigh-in weight with 24 hours to rehydrate doesn't mean much. Cyborg is 15-20 pounds heavier than Rousey at fit weight (based on Cyborg's post showing her at 175 pounds and Rousey walking around at a fit 155 in TUF. Unless Rousey has vastly better technique than Cyborg (and there's no indication of that), she's simply too small to beat Cyborg. There's a reason for weight divisions.

They could get around that by having them fight at 145 (or fairer, 155) with a weigh-in just before going into the cage. That fight would be a classic matchup, and either could win - because then they really would be the same size.

The difference between Cyborg and Rousey concerning PED's is that Cyborg failed a test, Rousey never did. That's not a double standard, its simply a fact. The debate then moves on to how long do benefits last - there is growing evidence that it can last decades (much of the tests done on mice admittedly - but then again, the tests that said benefits were limited in duration were also done on mice). The question of whether Cyborg is still benefiting doesn't have much to do with double standards, or even Cyborg vs Rousey, its a much bigger issue concerning how long suspensions should be. For instance, in the 2016 Olympics, America had a sprinter Gatlin who twice was popped, but was again allowed to run (and win silver); many feel that was unfair, and those complaining probably have never heard of either Cyborg or Rousey (MMA is a still a very niche sport, even compared to track and field).

And you're a smart guy, you know very well that its impossible to prove a negative in most things (binary questions in formal systems like math being the exception), so no it can't be proven that Rousey (or any other athlete in any sport in the world) has had an absolutely clean career. I'm kind of surprised to see that in your post, you typically stick to science.

I don't think it has much to do with Rousey getting victim status (she's extremely rich, I think most people would love to be that kind of victim), just that its decidedly odd to repeatedly call out someone who hasn't said anything for a year. But if its a question of taking offense at Rousey, I'd say Cain and GSP have prior claims to Cyborg (she said GSP was bad at MMA, and during a streak where he hadn't even lost a round in many defenses, interestingly enough Rousey has never said Cyborg is bad at MMA, just that she thought she was a cheater).
The double standard with regard to Cyborg's failed test is that a long list of mixed martial artists have also failed tests, some multiple times yet their careers go on after their suspensions almost as if the slate has been wiped clean (ex. Barnett) or even celebrated (ex. Ubereem, TRT Vitor). Cris Cyborg failed one test 5 years ago and has tested clean ever since including a good number of USADA tests but still the first thing that is brought up about her in every thread is that she's a roider, a cheater, probably still roiding, still cheating. I don't know if the double standard is applied because of Cyborg herself or because she's a woman. I suspect the latter.

Which brings me to Ronda. I realize my wording was ambiguous. If it were possible to prove that her career was completely clean and it was proven to be so, I would be surprised by that result. I would be surprised if any top athlete in any sport where money is an incentive had been completely clean their entire career.

Which brings me to the research on mice that suggest that a cycle of steroids will benefit the user for years. Maybe so. Was that effect quantified by the study? I suspect it is either theoretical or extremely small. Common sense will tell you that if steroids benefited the user at a significant level well beyond the period of usage, athletes would not need to continue to take steroids to maintain their performance level. Regardless, that theory needs to be applied to all fighters who used steroids not just Cyborg. Cyborg threads are the only ones where it is ever brought up. Double standard.
 
Which brings me to the research on mice that suggest that a cycle of steroids will benefit the user for years. Maybe so. Was that effect quantified by the study? I suspect it is either theoretical or extremely small.

There have been multiple studies. And, of course, when additional muscle cell nuclei are bred, they remain. That is a basic premise of physiology.


Common sense will tell you that if steroids benefited the user at a significant level well beyond the period of usage, athletes would not need to continue to take steroids to maintain their performance level.

Of course, athletes are looking to increase performance level.


Regardless, that theory needs to be applied to all fighters who used steroids not just Cyborg. Cyborg threads are the only ones where it is ever brought up. Double standard.

It is brought up in the threads of a ton of other fighters, including Anderson and pretty much everyone else. There was a thread about Lombard, guess what the first few posts were? Saying that Cyborg threads are the only place where it was ever brought up is blatantly false.
 
Back
Top