Opinion Why aren't people against universal healthcare against universal education, universal police, etc?

[MMAViewer]

Yeah private health insurance has never fucked anyone over.

That went right over your head sherbro, I'm sorry.
I was joking.
I strongly agree that private health insurance, the doctors who manipulate them and the billing companies are the biggest problem in our health care system.
A close second is our government kick back programs that allowed pharma to phuck us too. Dems and Republicans are both to blame here tbf.

 

[ShadowRun]

They are only part time socialists

Curious about the AV notice you and a couple others got starman AV? i

 

[TehJesus]

Because it's an indoctrinated belief, as opposed to a rational one.

 

[SmilinDesperado]

A individual’s health is largely their own responsibility, and in turn, the individual has the right to make unhealthy choices and suffer their own consequences. In the US, you have a bunch of irresponsible people who don’t take care of themselves (eg eating crap food, little/no exercise, alcohol, drugs, etc), and with taxpayer funded healthcare these idiots will probably do more of the same (people are more prone to take care of themselves if they are the ones that have to pay (literally and figuratively).

In addition, the costs of healthcare in the US, and the provision of care, are heavily influenced by a mafia -like cartel who have hijacked treatment (see: “best practices”), and I don’t want collusion between government and these organizations beyond what already exists; or do I want our notoriously inefficient government to take the reigns... Not to mention, the medical system in the US is responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths every year related to medical error, and increasing access to this literal death machine would most likely increase the number of people harmed by the same.

A lot of things that affect your health aren't in your control.
The air, the quality of the food and water, powerlines next to your home, "acceptable" amounts of chemicals and toxins in buildings and products, etc. The policies of the government play a large role in the health of the population. And our FDA is garbage.
Exercising and a healthy diet doesn't guarantee you good health.

 

[HollaBack]

to me universal healthcare makes sense

 

[AWilder]

people fooled by conservative media often lack basic logic skills.

 

[TryggeTryggvar]

people fooled by conservative media often lack basic logic skills.

You should remove the word conservative and your post would make more sense

 

[AWilder]

You should remove the word conservative and your post would make more sense

 

[Damien Karras]

If your parents can't afford $20K a year to send you to school, it's not my problem. I'm tired of paying for deadbeats' educations. It pisses me off.

What do you think a janitor's salary should be? Do you think the janitor has a right to have kids? Should he have to pay 20k a year for his kids' education? Failure to pay for their kids' education should result in what? No education at all?

 

[PrinceOfPain]

They're not entirely comparable.
The basic levels of education and security required to function in the modern world and fairly contribute to society are not naturally occurring. Most of the time, the required level of health is naturally occurring.

 

[Diogenes of Sinope]

Free college would make sense if they were actually teaching them valuable skills and not Social Justice

 

[Zazen]

A individual’s health is largely their own responsibility, and in turn, the individual has the right to make unhealthy choices and suffer their own consequences. In the US, you have a bunch of irresponsible people who don’t take care of themselves (eg eating crap food, little/no exercise, alcohol, drugs, etc), and with taxpayer funded healthcare these idiots will probably do more of the same (people are more prone to take care of themselves if they are the ones that have to pay (literally and figuratively).

In addition, the costs of healthcare in the US, and the provision of care, are heavily influenced by a mafia -like cartel who have hijacked treatment (see: “best practices”), and I don’t want collusion between government and these organizations beyond what already exists; or do I want our notoriously inefficient government to take the reigns... Not to mention, the medical system in the US is responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths every year related to medical error, and increasing access to this literal death machine would most likely increase the number of people harmed by the same.

I went into debt paying for my mom's cancer treatment years ago. She did everything right. How is a system like that okay with you?

 

[Deleted member 263856]

Most people can't afford these things in a free market system, without the government providing them or subsidizing them. So, they don't deserve a k-12 education am I right?

TBH two tier healthcare is the best. I'm from a country that had fully socialized health care system at one point and then went two tier out of necessity.

 

[PhitePhan]

Yet, many countries with universal coverage have a healthier population, insures everyone while managing to pay half in healthcare costs per capita and have better average outcomes.

Sure, but what percentage of those improved outcomes are due to factors other than healthcare access? Also, Hve those countries with better health outcomes promoted harmful nutritional guidelines for decades (e.g. the FDA approved/promoted food pyramid)?

The FDA's phony nutrition science: How Big Food and Agriculture trumps real science -- and why the government allows it
https://www.salon.com/2015/04/12/th...eal_science_and_why_the_government_allows_it/

Do those countries also promote sedentary lifestyles for our children and consumption of processed foods (e.g. several hours per day in a classroom and school lunches lacking proper nutrition)?

Results from the United States of America's 2016 Report Card on Physical Activity for Children and Youth
" Overall physical activity received a grade of D- due to the low prevalence of meeting physical activity guidelines. A grade of D was assigned to health-related fitness, reflecting the low prevalence of meeting cardiorespiratory fitness standards."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5562149/

The State of School Lunches In America
"A 2009 investigation by USA Today found that meat served in U.S. schools wouldn’t meet the quality or safety standards of fast-food restaurants. And according to the book Lunch Lessons, almost half the vegetables eaten by most children aged 2 to 19 in the U.S. were French fries."
https://foodrevolution.org/blog/school-lunch-in-america/

These factors (and others which relate to US health outcomes) are directly related to our political leadership and governmental interference in the US, so it is important to understand any aversion to imparting MORE responsibilities onto this same leadership (both political and scientific).

 

[Sano]

Sure, but what percentage of those improved outcomes are due to factors other than healthcare access? Also, Hve those countries with better health outcomes promoted harmful nutritional guidelines for decades (e.g. the FDA approved/promoted food pyramid)?

The FDA's phony nutrition science: How Big Food and Agriculture trumps real science -- and why the government allows it
https://www.salon.com/2015/04/12/th...eal_science_and_why_the_government_allows_it/

Do those countries also promote sedentary lifestyles for our children and consumption of processed foods (e.g. several hours per day in a classroom and school lunches lacking proper nutrition)?

Results from the United States of America's 2016 Report Card on Physical Activity for Children and Youth
" Overall physical activity received a grade of D- due to the low prevalence of meeting physical activity guidelines. A grade of D was assigned to health-related fitness, reflecting the low prevalence of meeting cardiorespiratory fitness standards."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5562149/

The State of School Lunches In America
"A 2009 investigation by USA Today found that meat served in U.S. schools wouldn’t meet the quality or safety standards of fast-food restaurants. And according to the book Lunch Lessons, almost half the vegetables eaten by most children aged 2 to 19 in the U.S. were French fries."
https://foodrevolution.org/blog/school-lunch-in-america/

These factors (and others which relate to US health outcomes) are directly related to our political leadership and governmental interference in the US, so it is important to understand any aversion to imparting MORE responsibilities onto this same leadership (both political and scientific).

I dont disagree that those are issues, but I don't see that as a strong enough argument against the single payer system. And I'd argue those issues are largely driven by privatization chasing profit margins. Universal coverage removes those profit incentives and increases public health incentives. Expanding on that, increased access also increases preventative measures.

Government is only as good or bad as the people within them, and the rules that regulate them. Pointing to instances of corruption or bad governance and throwing your hands up doesn't solve anything. It starts with the people wanting better policies for themselves, campaigning for those and voting people in that represents them. Before that, being informed. Coincidently Medicare is consistently the most popular healthcare service.

 

[PhitePhan]

I dont disagree that those are issues, but I don't see that as a strong enough argument against the single payer system. And I'd argue those issues are largely driven by privatization chasing profit margins. Universal coverage removes those profit incentives and increases public health incentives. Expanding on that, increased access also increases preventative measures.

Again, a single payer system would simply give the government MORE control over our healthcare... for the reasons I posted before (plus numerous others), I can't see why anyone would see more government as the solution to our healthcare problems in the US.

And to your point about chasing profit margins, collusion with the government has allowed that to happen, and even been strengthened by government intervention.

Government is only as good or bad as the people within them, and the rules that regulate them. Pointing to instances of corruption or bad governance and throwing your hands up doesn't solve anything.

I'm not "throwing my hands up," I'm standing against further government intervention/damage.

It starts with the people wanting better policies for themselves, campaigning for those and voting people in that represents them. Before that, being informed.

In the US we tend to be a bit more independent, and for the majority of our history we did not demand that the government take care of us, or manage our healthcare. And when the government has become involved, it hurt a lot of people (see the ACA).

Coincidently Medicare is consistently the most popular healthcare service.

HHS concerned about Medicare's long-term sustainability
"A shrinking taxpayer base, swelling beneficiary numbers and growing healthcare costs all threaten Medicare's long-term viability, according to the HHS, and the agency warned the program would need to increase its revenue or drastically reduce benefits to balance its budget."

https://www.modernhealthcare.com/article/20171120/NEWS/171129986/hhs-concerned-about-medicare-s-long-term-sustainability#:~:text=In a wide-ranging report,tax rates and expenditure levels."&text=In addition, healthcare costs continue,used to support the program.

 

[terrapin]

Free college would make sense if they were actually teaching them valuable skills and not Social Justice

bernie sanders proposal for free tuition included all trades schools.